Ouch... Hopefully nothing gets caught in the oil jet because that will spell engine failure for sure.

 

The worst thing is, since it's a filter, the material won't break down. It's made to keep receiving hot, dirty oil...

I'm curious, would OP literally have to pull the engine apart for this?

 

I'd pull the pan... but that's me. I'd like to see what I'm dealing with.
You could probably just change oil/filter and go and be fine. Then change it sooner for the next few times.
Please post picts.

 

I would like to pull the pan but I'm not exactly sure how to...never done it before.
I assume just undo the almost 50 bolts holding it in there ha.
I have to use the truck soon but I don't want to cause damage. I change my oil every 4,000 miles on the dot.

 

Here is my issue...

Fram are they going to try to screw you and find a way to pin this on you or are they going to assist?

If you flush the engine, you lose evidence if they try to send you your way without the KY jelly.
But you need the truck.

I would at minimum (.02 cents) pull the head, the pan, and give everything a nice cleaning. +Would it ever really hurt to look things over anyway? Spray the rotating assembly with mild cleaner, run new oil and good filter for 500 miles. Change it. 2,500 miles, change it. Then I don't see how you wouldn't be in the clear...

Fleetguard, Donaldson, mopar (Can be found at Walmart for $13 now), and Baldwin, all make excellent filters.

 

I hope it all turns out well for you, but that's one of the reasons I wont run fram products.

 

Many years ago I ran Fram all the time. After I started hearing all these stories I dissected a standard PH8A filter and that was enough to make me never want to use Fram again unless there is absolutely nothing else available. Some will mention that is bottom line filter for them and others are better. Might be but if you put this out as a quality product I don't trust ANY of your stuff anymore. What I found was very cheap cardboard inside and not very many pleats in the media. Not liking a couple other things but this was about 10 years ago so don't recall all of it.

 

...what will pulling the head show?

I've used Fram my whole life until this truck.
After learning about filters here I've even started ordering Donaldson filters for my wife's car. (Hyundai)

 

...what will pulling the head show?

That you now need a new gasket

 

Alright I'm gonna go on the computer and try to post some pictures while I have some time.
It is certainly filter paper that I'm looking at.
And yeah really hoping they are gonna help me out here or I'm gonna PO.
I changed the oil and I'm gonna decrease intervals of changes. And hope for the best from FRAM.

It's gonna kill me not to make sure everything is clean by pulling the pan and everything but I need to use the truck for work and I don't have time today it seems daunting.

 

Where are you located OP? you'd be surprised how many guys are willing to give you a hand.

 

Here are the pictures of the objects in the oil.

 

Idk were the pictures went or how to do it...but I dragged and dropped them under the text box here

 

Is that all through the block or is it isolated from what you have seen?

 

im sure while not easy, dropping the pan would be the best and safest thing to do. If you see the filter element everywhere then I would worry. If not clean everything good with brake cleaner and call it a day. Take pics of everything to help document your case against fram.

 

I haven't had time yet to look in the valve cover or oil pan but from what I have seen it was on the dipstick, oil out of the pan, and on the edge of the filter. Thus everywhere I have looked so far. I made sure to document everything and got a product evaluation form from FRAM. I also am going to keep the oil filter and oil. I may send in the oil to get it tested. The truck is running very smooth with the new oil and filter (big difference smooth). So I'm hoping everything works out good. Guess I learned to late the lesson between a good filter and junk.

 

OK, after seeing picts makes me want to pull the pan before driving it anymore.
Pulling the pan is easier than you think, and is a good time to paint it with some good rust paint. (check archives on why if you gotta ask)
For oil test you only need a little bit, not all of it.
Most guys here do go farther than 4k on oil. I go 5k and I'm a nut job. Get your self a quick change valve thing... but hey, change it when it makes you feel good. In the big scheme, oil and filters are cheap.
Location???

Remember, Fleetguard IS Cummins.
(read as good and is what you should measure from)

EDIT:
if it was my truck, the pan would be off.

 

That's rough. One piece gets stuck in a piston cooling jet and the motor is toast.

 

If it were me id wanna pull the valve cover(5min job) and the oil pan.. Just would make me feel better.. Yes pulling the pan isnt a simple 5 min job but can be done and put back together in a day..

I know fram for these trucks usually fail due to the high oil pressure.. Ive ran them in gassers tho with no problems.. Ran them on both of our grand cherokees.. 1st one made it to 215k before we sold it and the second made it 135k.. None had a failure of any of the fram filters

 

I will check everything as soon as I can but, in the meantime, let's say I do find paper everywhere. I'm not in any different situation I'm still gonna be contacting FRAM and trying to resolve this.

No I haven't cut open the filter yet because I was told to wait by the diesel shop I called.
I don't wanna make it seems like it I did it. This whole situation just sucks.
Here I am last night excited about going to the fleet guard filters and read about FRAMs falling apart. Thought to myself, hey! I run a FRAM. I go check the dipstick and oh...what's this papery stuff? Lol

 

Lol... I had the same thing happen with my LLY. Read about bad head gaskets, next day it puked coolant. Fun times...

I agree with the shop. Do not give them any reason to think it could've been you.
Do you keep maintenence records/receipts? Sometimes companies will fight, sometimes they understand things happen.

I run 6,000 on my Valvoline 15-40 with a Donaldson Blue filter. I know you can run way more, but my worry isn't the oil additives breaking down, but contamination and dirt in the oil wearing rings. Then again, a good filter should prevent that.

 

Pulling the head or pan would tell you nothing. Pulling valve cover may tell you if oil is getting to the rocker arms. Nothing will tell you if it is getting to the rings or bearings where it really matters. So if you are going to tear something down you have to do the whole thing for it to matter. I would talk to Fram and see what they are going to do. Otherwise change the oil as described above and see what happens. If you tear it down it will cost you 2-5000 bucks right now, if you don't It may cost the same later, or maybe never. If Fram does cover it have it done somewhere.

 

^^^Agree. Although I would maybe think real hard about doing a couple oil and filter changes within 1000 miles. Oil and new filters are cheap at this point, and 'might' help. JMO

 

Yea, that was pretty much my point.

 

Your K&N isn't helping much either with your Problem . Is your turbo dusted also ?

 

Your K&N isn't helping much either with your Problem . Is your turbo dusted also ?

You turbo should be clean inside. Take a white paper towel and wipe the turbo out if there is any dirt/dust the filter is trash material. Throw it away instantly! I've seen several brand new washable filters pass dust in as little as 1,000 miles. Hence why I won't touch them. I travel way too many dirt roads to risk it.

 

the turbo is pretty clean with the K&N.
You're saying they fall apart?
The setup is more like a BHAF just picked up a big K&N with a 4in flange.
It certainly makes he turbo spool allot better.
Although going with the stock filter and housing it is allot quieter (very little turbo whistle in the cab if any) and allot less smoke when towing or whenever I have to push it with low boost.

 

They let more dirt through and because they are oiled they stick to the inside of the intake system and goes into the motor. On gas motors they usually kill the MAF sensors along with letting dirt and oil get sucked into the motor.

 

I have no desire to turn this thread into a war of oil brands, nor change interval arguments..... Run whatever you choose as its your truck and your money.

But.....all that said, I cant express with enough sincerity how IMPORTANT it is to NOT install a dry oil filter on these engines!!!!!

Yes, pre-filling the oil filter is always a good method on any engine (if possible), but its critical on these particular Cummins engines simply because of the force and volume the oil pump can generate upon initial startup. This blast of thick cold oil will plunge through the dry oil filter media and damage the material, causing things like this thread is discussing. And anyone who tries to talk you out of this method for fear of sending random debris directly into the oil pump is misunderstanding and overlooking everything about this process.

So in defense of all those naysayers who choose to use FRAM, I'm here to say that FRAM is a very cheaply made product (as so are many many other oil filter brands.....so do your homework), but.....this isnt so much a FRAM issue as much as it is the Cummins engine making it a FRAM issue.

DONT RUN A FRAM ON THE CUMMINS. But if you feel the convenience or money is worth the risk then at least make sure the filter is pre-filled before starting the engine upon changing the oil so you dont blow apart the filter media and send material shards through the oil system and plug up the oil piston jets.

Lastly, I agree with others who've suggested to pull the pan and valve cover. But before doing so, I'd also pour a gallon of oil into the engine and then drain, filter it through a large coffee filter and do it again a couple times. Then pull the pan and valve cover to look for any trapped or remaining filter material. If this stuff gets caught in a piston jet then the piston(s) will cook. Have you opened the filter to make sure what you're seeing is from this filter? :thumbsup: