Cummins Diesel Forum banner

'04.5 3500 Control arm / alignment questions?

2 reading
5.6K views 20 replies 5 participants last post by  TWR  
#1 ·
Hey Everyone,

I am having an issue with my 04.5 3500 4x4. The truck has:
2" Lift
BD Trac bar
BD Steering stabilizer
American Racing wheel adapters
Alcoa 22.5 wheels
Toyo 255/70r22.5 tires

The problem was not apparent when I bought the truck. I test drove it on nice pristine asphalt roads and it drove well. A bit different than my stock '01 but OK. I continued to drive it around town for several months with no trouble.

Then.... I took a trip from Seattle to Walla Walla. As soon as I went over Snoqualmie Pass I started to experience some funky steering feel. When I turned off onto a back country two lane that was a bit rough things got really bad. It was like herding cats down the road. Feint left & swerve right.

I thought something had broken. The local repair shop was closed for the duration of my visit so I decided to limp home. When I got close to home it seemed to have gotten much better. I took it to Les Schwab and had the teenagers look it over and test drive it. They told me that everything was fine.

I continued to drive it and it seemed better. Then I took another trip to Walla Walla.... As soon as I hit the East side of the mountains it got scary again... WTF?? Is my truck allergic to Eastern Washington? Afraid of Cougars?

On my third trip over I really played with the symptoms and found that pavement imperfections, potholes, seams in the pavement and especially the "wear ruts" on concrete road surfaces.

Rolling along on good smooth asphalt the truck drives nicely. Driving on rough or rutted road causes the truck to behave unpredictably. Sometimes when making a steering correction or changing lanes the truck is "reluctant" to change direction. I apply a bit more steering pressure and the truck changes direction almost violently and I have to apply opposite correction. potholes cause unexpected attempts to change direction.

I took the truck to a shop that specializes in diesel pickups. The owner was busy but took a few minutes for a quick look at my truck. He seemed quite certain that the issue was the fact that longer control arms had not been installed when the lift kit was installed.

His suggested fix is to install Carli control arms to correct the front axle position caused by the lift kit.

His explanation made sense to me until I started reading about the Carli control arms. The information I read gave me the impression that the Carli arms are the same length as stock.

What do you all think? Carli control arms? Adjustable control arms? Avoid Eastern Washington?

Thanks

S.
 
#2 ·
Carli arms are 1/2 inch longer. Call CJCOffroad, they will give you expert advice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rhinopkc
#4 ·
Honestly I can't see 1/2" longer arms correcting what you are describing, many people are driving on stock control arms with 2" or 3" lifts and no issues. Yes the longer arms are nice to have but not essential. I'd look for play in the steering and consider replacing wear parts or better yet upgrade to the newer T style setup.

Edit: sorry maybe the 3500 had the T style steering. At any rate I'd look at the steering linkage and joints closely
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the input.

When the issues became apparent and I took it to Les Schwab they checked for play in the steering and did not find an issue. I am not certain that I trust that though.

I do have the "Y" steering setup and the owner of the other shop that I took it to did mention that I may want to change to the "T" style.
 
#6 ·
How much air psi do you have the front and rear tires? Also with out checking your truck i can't tell you if anything is worn out, that's what other {GOOD} mechanics are for to inspect and tell you whats worn out if anything and i know most mechanics do not deal with 22.5 on a 1 ton so very limited experience with a beast like that. I will tell you 22.5 truck tire will be much different ride when you hit ruts and sometimes pot holes than a normal 17 or 20 light truck tire mostly because 22.5 have 14 to 18 ply sidewall and likely not running 120 psi like the tire calls for. They do drive much different on a 1 ton truck than on a big truck. They do have do have a tendency to follow ruts in the road. I work with a fleet of 400 buses that run 22.5 tires and i have had 22.5 on my own truck for 3 years. Also a with a 2 inch lift a longer control arm is needed to move the axle forward to be factory and should it have alignment done. Something else is you should have a good set of shocks running 22.5 and the front should be longer with a 2 inch lift. If i can help anymore just pm me.
 
#10 ·
Valid point on the lift + short arms limiting caster adjustment range, thanks for adding that. PNW where are your caster bolts set right now? Stock the alignment marks are usually pretty vertical (mine were near 12 o'clock) but with lift they should be rotated more toward the front of the vehicle to help correct caster angle. For example looking from driver side say more like 10-11 o'clock position.

edit (again) LOL now I can't remember if they get rotated to front or back to add caster. It's obvious when you're adjusting it though, and adjusting is something that can be done easily at home.
 
#11 ·
I run 65 psi front and 55 psi rear so you are not bad tire psi but you may want to drop psi abit. About the only way to set caster is with a caster camber gauge like i have or have alignment done. RallyX is right most trucks i have been under the caster washer are set about 12 o clock but that's me just looking at them not checking it with a gauge or alignment and factory frame and mounts can be very different from truck to truck. I know you have a caster problem lifted and if no alignment was done after but to make it correct with a lift you need longer control arms and alignment this will help but it still will follow ruts because of the 22.5. I guess its a trade off if you want to run 22.5 that's way a lot of guys cut the 22.5 down to 22 and run a light truck tire. Then you lose the 200,000 mile tire and that's why i put them on in the frist place!!!
 
#15 ·
Awesome info!!

Thank you!!

It is too dark out now to look but first thing tomorrow I will take a look.

From what you describe I should be able to make some small adjustments and look at the effect. Anything I should be concerned about in this process?

Thanks again.
 
#16 ·
If your going to move the cam bolts to adjust the caster leave the truck on the ground, back the nuts off both sides just so you can rotate the bolt. Move both to where you want them set then tighten one side to 140 ft. lbs. then the other to 140 ft. lbs. make sure to hold the bolt as you tighten the nut to keep it from rotating.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the direction. I am going to have to hunt down a bigger torque wrench.

To make sure I understand:

I want to add a bit of positive caster. Yes?

To accomplish this I need to turn the cam bolts in the direction that causes the "pointer" to move further towards the front of the truck. Correct?

After adjusting, hold the adjusting bolt and torque the lock nut to 140 ft. lbs.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks again Everyone.
 
#18 ·
That sounds right...you want the cam portion of the bolt toward the front.

Grab a cheap degree finder and lay it on top of your ball joint.

After adjusting and driving...you may need to adjust just one slightly more so...this is creating a cross castor, and helps eliminate the dreaded right or left pull these trucks see from tire selections.
 
#20 ·
It's obvious once you get under there, just remember you want to move the axle forward to increase the caster angle. Visualize the strut in following diagram being held by upper and lower control arms and you're adjusting the length of the lower link to set the caster angle. Increasing the angle (lean back) makes the steering more stable and self centering but slower.

Image