Tm2 will net you the most power and mpg. If you had bigger injectors like 120's or bigger you would benefit from tm3. Tm4 is for nitrous. Less timing will raise your egt's so keep an eye on your gauges.

 

It's actually #2,3,4, & 1 in order from most to least. I was told that #2=21*, #3=18*, #4=16*, & stock is 12*. I run #2 timing for DD, & when I tow/haul, I drop it down to #4. This will increase EGT's, but will have lower cyl temps/heat load, to lessen the chance of melting a piston.

 

so it is best to use the least timming when towing. what about keeping the timing stock. would that be better then 4?

 

well i'm running #2 and i just dont like the way it feels. I'm getting a little more blue smoke than the stock setting and low throttle. I was gonna run a little less timing and see if it helped. so It shouldn't hurt to run 3 or 4?

 

Yes, in your first post I believe was for the TNT software. 3 won't hurt anything:thumbsup:

 

Stock timing will put less heat load on the pistons, & increase the EGT's you see on the gauge. With your sticks, I would definitly try SW4, Or stock for towing. Your sticks will probably be equal to Timing4 with my stock sticks with yours set to stock timing. Aftermarket injectors add to the timing setting.

 

so your saying if it set on stock timing i will be around the #4 timing? cause my sticks are biggger?

 

Yes. Basicly. Your sticks will advance any timing you choose by some. Can't say by how much exactly. They may even equal Timing #3. Assuming Marco calculated it to get the same base timing with big sticks, I'm guessing that #2 is forF-1's to get 21-23* base timing. So #3 would get the same base timing with F-2's, & #4 would net the same as F3's, or F-4's. Remember these programs are for RACING, not pulling heavy for long periods. 21* base timing with 1300 EGT's pre turbo, can melt a piston in minutes. It's all about heat load on the piston, not so much about EGT's.

 

I'm confused. I've read here hundreds of times that it is advantageous to run a SMARTY with advanced timing to help lower EGT's while towing. Am I in fact playing with a ticking time bomb? If this is the case, is a Bully Dog or some other programmer than may not advance the timing as much to cool EGT's be better because the internal heat load is less? How would one measure the combustion temps to know whether or not we are beyond "safe" amounts?

 

flat lander it gets very confusing on the 04.5 up with the in-cylinder egr. they delayed timing, lengthend duration and added a very late 3rd pulse this was done to keep peak pressure and peak cylinder temp down but because the fuelling is so far away from tdc the egt's appear way hotter than previous models but in actuality it is lower than previous models on the pistons. for us that want better mpg we reverse engineer the process and as we do we see the egt drop knowing we are bringing piston temp up. with the smarty jr on default tow you will have both lower egt and piston temp than earlier models. you desparatly need to change your cam to a pdr or colt and get you some 50 hp nozzles from ddp. this will gain you 6 mpg and the lowest egt once the nozzles are on you need to go back to the economy setting. the 50 hp from the nozzles is kind of a unwanted byproduct of shortning the fuelling duration. with 40 hp from the jr and 50 from the nozzles it fits the air you have and is better than stock on the engine. some posting on here like to play and their requirements are different 150 hp nozzles drastically shortens duration to where the main or 2ond pulse injects the fuel just over tdc where the pressure is highest and the most efficient work is done but also produces the most piston temp. because the fuel burns longer the egt appears lower. we tow very heavy and have many drivers. we can not have a truck set up that you have to drive by a pyrometer. some of our older trucks have at or over 1,000,000 miles on them all of our 06's are set up this way except the one in my sig i added enough air to use tow setting. bigwheels 94 gave a good explanation on the stick timing vs size

 

I've been poking around here for quite a while, and I don't think I've seen that all spelled out quite so well. Thanks for taking the time. I recently sold my Jr. and tried a BD for a little while, and now recently moved to the Sr. I will probably have to be careful for a while and as you said...drive by my pyro. I've exhausted all funds on my tranny rebuild, and adding extra filtration. Maybe early next year after winter moves on before the oppressive heat moves in and can think about tearing it down to do the cam and injectors. :thumbsup:

 

so for us with stock sticks everyone has been telling me to run Tm2, But i'd be safer running Tm4 or Tm3? I'm running Tm 2 now so anything that has less timming (Tm3-Tm4) should be safer? Also would think then running a larger turbo would help bring cylinder temp down along well the egts?

 

There is no free ride. Any programer advances timing, for the 1st 50hp +/- increase. then it's all about increasing duration of injection. A little bit of both is still safe, but too much of either can melt pistons. Example. My truck hauls a 4K# slide in with a lot of wind resistance, & I am comfortable running TNT SW9/TQ2/RP2/&Timing4. On this setting with my mods I'm OK up to 1250 EGT for a sustained grade. If I punch it I have hit 1670 EGT for a few seconds. Typical grade for me is about 6-8% for about 4-6 miles, & I'll have 28-30# boost, & 1000-1250 EGT, depending on speed, & winds. 78K on the truck now doing this for about 3K miles a yr.
As an analogy to piston temp. Think of a rubber hose with water flowing through. If you pass a blow torch over it for a second or two @ a time the rubber doesn't melt. But if you leave it there for too long it melts.

 

So from what you are saying, we "should" be okay if we stick with 1 device for timing, following the rough formula posted earlier(injector size complementing Smarty settings) not exceeding the 21 degrees. For instance, if we use Smarty for timing, don't add a pressure box or something else that ALSO adds timing. If we don't add any timing through Smarty, then and only then can you use a secondary device to add timing....which usually includes pressure as well. All this while keeping a check on our EGT's. If they are in the range you suggested (1000-1250) sustained, the cylinder temps should be?

Did I keep up? :confused013:

 

I think you got it. I would never stack two programmers/boxes that both add timing. That is almost guaranteeing problems. For DD, & short bursts advanced timing is good for performance, but for towing it is a killer. Also, the limiting factor towing isn't the fuel rate, & EGT as much as the stock cooling system. If I needed to tow a 5'er over the same roads I would drop the TNT to SW3, or 5 since I'd never be able to keep the engine cool anyway with 15K load behind the truck on SW9. With your set up (stock turbo, & FS) Timing 2 for DD, & occasional playing is GTG, but if you tow, I'd think about setting the timing down to 3-4, & lower the SW to1-3 to be safe, & watch the EGT's, & water temps.

 

Good to know. I'm actually headed to the mountains next week pulling our 30' camper. I'll probably drop it to 1 to be safe.

 

so if i dropped my timing to stock, what would be a safe egt max to be towing at? being that stock timing with my 100hp sticks is going to put me around timing 4?

 

I would say that if you keep it below 1300 EGT sustained you should be GTG. But it would also depend on if you set your TNT down to 1, or 3 max. With a stock turbo, you won't have the air to keep the smoke down, especially if you tow at altitude. Smoke means that there is more fuel than air to burn it, so EGT's will be lower than if you had the air to burn all the fuel. Given the same load, & fuel rate.(your killer B will flow more air to burn more fuel) Advanced timing means that more of the heat generated by combustion goes into the piston, while less advance means more heat is diverted out the exhaust. Less air to fuel also means lower EGT's, while more air means more fuel is burned giving more heat that has to go somewhere. It either goes into the piston to generate power, or it goes out the exhaust which raises EGT's seen by the pyro. Heat that goes into the piston isn't seen by the pyro. So in a nutshell if you have smoke, & lower EGT's if you add more air EGT's go up, but if you add more timing EGT's go down, smoke goes down, & safe EGT's go down with it.

 

id be towing on tnt 1 or probably be better to go back to revo for towing??