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Replacing a cracked engine block, industrial engine as donor?

3.2K views 9 replies 4 participants last post by  CJ68  
#1 ·
I don't know why or how but my '96 12V block cracked in the same area as many 53 blocks do. Casting flaw, core shift, previous owner froze it? I dunno... The rest of the truck has been completely rebuilt with only a couple thousand miles on every moving part except for the long block and injection pump, which currently have less than 150K miles on them. I am hesitant to attempt at repairing my block for fear that the cause is a casting flaw and it will just crack again. At the same time I am not paying the prices idiots are asking for 300K mile motors out of a dodge truck...

I have found a few suppliers of pull out motors but they all look to be industrial application engines.

I have been trying to find some definitive information on what if any differences these industrial engine long blocks might have vs. the truck motor. Naturally all the hits I am getting on google are topics related to the "best/strongest" of the 12V blocks or what motors make good donors for a cummins swap into a non-factory application.

I am doing a direct swap into a factory 12V truck so I don't care about differences in injection pump, gear case, or other accessories. I have all of that in good working order. I only care about differences in block, head, crankshaft, rods, pistons, etc.

Regardless of condition of the engine that I purchase, at a bare minimum, I will be tearing it down, measuring all bearing journals and bores to ensure they are withing spec, correcting whatever is needed then installing new bearing, piston rings, and getting the head cleaned up with a valve job.

Some specific differences that I had read about:

  • Can I use my original engine serial number to order parts like gasket sets, oil pump, etc?
  • Storm block vs. non-storm block: I don't want a storm block, I want all my stock style fittings and sensors to work.
  • Front sump oil pan: Not a big deal, I can swap over my oil pan and pick up tube. Is there more to it than that?
  • (Unconfirmed) Intercooled head vs. non-intercooled head: I have seen references to some casting differences but no details.
  • (Unconfirmed) Lower compression ratio in certain industrial engines: If true, will a new set of pistons bring that motor up to dodge specs?
 
#2 ·
Some specific differences that I had read about:

  • Can I use my original engine serial number to order parts like gasket sets, oil pump, etc? Everything of that nature should be the same, or directly interchangeable. The 12v oil pumps, for example, are commonly swapped out for the higher-flow unit from a 24v.
  • Storm block vs. non-storm block: I don't want a storm block, I want all my stock style fittings and sensors to work. I expect any differences in gaskets and that type of thing you'd look up by ESN that aren't a direct fit would be caused by the STORM/non-STORM division. But I've never compared the two side by side so I couldn't be sure.
  • Front sump oil pan: Not a big deal, I can swap over my oil pan and pick up tube. Is there more to it than that? Nope. New o-ring and Loctite the bolts for safety.
  • (Unconfirmed) Intercooled head vs. non-intercooled head: I have seen references to some casting differences but no details. I don't have anything to contribute on this point.
  • (Unconfirmed) Lower compression ratio in certain industrial engines: If true, will a new set of pistons bring that motor up to dodge specs? Yes, and if you have it apart I would personally recommend swapping to stock-compression 155Âş pistons. The stock (for automotive applications) 145Âş setup was done exclusively for emissions, I'd have to look again but I believe the entire point of it was to reduce levels of one specific combustion byproduct the EPA doesn't like. 155Âş bowls are standard in all other applications (industrial, marine, etc) as far as I know. The benefit would be a more efficient burn as far as power produced per unit of injected fuel, you'd see a slight bump in fuel economy in normal driving and some reduction of visible emissions, versus an identical engine with 145Âş bowls in the same operating conditions. But, this would necessitate swapping to injectors with a 155Âş spray pattern. Do not run 145Âş injectors in a 155Âş bowl with the plan of swapping them later.
Hope that was semi-helpful.
 
#3 ·
Thanks, this is helpful. At least one voice at this point pointing in the direction I was hoping for.
 
#5 ·
I am not looking at truck motors at all. Long blocks are so much cheaper when they are not associated with MOPAR...

Not ruling them out but....
 
#6 ·
Also, preferably I would like to have a complete assembled long block sitting there when I start the swap. I don't want to have to pull my head and wait for the machine work to be done.
 
#7 ·
Doing some more digging on Cylinder heads today. I have found out that if you have pre-91.5 Dodge non-inter cooled motor and install a later model inter-cooled head, you need to change your injectors to ones with 7mm tips. So... I guess that means non-intercooled heads run different injectors. Now if only I could find a way to positively identify (casting number or specific feature) any 12-valve cylinder head as one that will work for me... then I could harass some sellers for pictures of the engine I am looking to purchase.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Are you looking at buying a running engine to install or a builder?
When I first did my conversion I used a 94 2nd gen out of a dodge, that engine turned out to be a oil burning junker.
To bad your so far away I'd let it go pretty cheap as it needs a full rebuild.
The 2nd engine was a 2007 factory Recon 190 hp out of a rear engine bus that has spun a rod bearing, $700 and came with a nearly new HX35 turbo, when I pulled it apart in had 91-93 inner cooled 1st gen pistons, these are similar to 2nd gen pistons but have a slightly larger dia bowl with the same compression as 2nd gen.
Due to metal embedded in the piston skirts I was unable to reuse them, after a bit of searching we were unable to find a set of replacement pistons, since this was a Recon engine the data tag was no good for finding parts.
Picked up a crank and rod from a local guy that has lots of Cummins parts, ordered a set of 1st gen non-inner cooled Mahle pistons and 155 degree injectors. The engine had front sump pan but the Dodge pan and pickup fit with no mods, head was the same, Dodge lower rad hose and AC mount bolted right on, thermostat housing fit, everything swapped from the Dodge engine to the industrial with no issues.
When swapping oil pans you'll need to drive out the dipstick tube and relocate it to the rear, you simply remove the plug in the rear hole, install the tube and plug the hole the tube came out of, you'll also need the swap fuel filter housings as the industrial engines use a filter base with a different size thread for the filter, or you can just use the industrial filter that's a bit smaller. Industrial inj pumps do not have the holes threaded for the Dodge linkage bracket, but you'll probably want to use the Dodges pump as some ind pump have 11mm plunger instead of the 12mm plungers used on Dodge engines.
Since my engine was a Recon the block had been decked .010, found that while checking piston protrusion, this required a .010 over head gasket from Cummins which is $100 higher than a standard thickness gasket.
If you get a engine with a air compressor the Dodge vac pump and PS pump fit the same mounts, but you need to remove the compressor drain to mount you engine mounts, after removing the drain you need to install a core plug in the drain hole in the block.

If you do get a block to rebuild I recommend installing the billet piston cooling nozzles instead of the factory plastic jobs.
That's about it, basically just a matter of swapping parts.

PS: You'll find most of the industrial engines don't have the fuel heater or pre screen that dodge uses but I prefer it like that and installed a inline pre screen.
 
#10 ·
Looking for a builder. How cheap? And willing to put it on a pallet? Places I am looking at buying from I would still need to ship. Price I pay for living on a sand bar sticking out in the middle of the Atlantic ocean...