Usually the Cummins trades towing capacity for payload. The Hemi is less towing capacity but more payload from what I have seen.

Get rid of your family or stop screwing around and get a 5th Gen 3500..why are you trading down?

 

Get rid of your family or stop screwing around and get a 5th Gen 3500..why are you trading down?

Both are good options 😁

Sold my 5th wheel, so I was looking for a bit of a softer ride, while still staying with Cummins.
Sadly, I probably will be going with the GMC, that payload is off the charts and the ride was very nice. Interior sux, but what are you gonna do?

It just blew my mind that Ram had the audacity to call it "heavy duty", yet the payload can't even reach 2,000lbs...

 

Yeah the GM's have much more payload. And now that the GM tows more than the Ram, it's not a comparison in this category. My 2020 GMC 2500 only has 400 lbs less payload than my 2019 Ram 3500.

 

GM's tow numbers are up by 900 by GM's best numbers (and the second link, only 400), and GMC/Chevy have demonstrated that what they advertise isn't trustworthy when they tried to argue that they were the most reliable manufacturer (including over Honda and Toyota) because they won more (meaningless) J.D. Power Initial Quality awards.
GM's best payload for an HD truck is 7,442 lbs, Ram's is 7,680 lbs.

Those numbers also change depending on what page you're looking at.

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Vehicle Specs | 2021 Sierra 2500HD & 3500HD | Heavy Duty Truck

Choose from a next generation GMC Sierra 2500HD or 3500HD and learn more about the vehicle specs, trims and features available.

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Both are good options 😁

Sold my 5th wheel, so I was looking for a bit of a softer ride, while still staying with Cummins.
Sadly, I probably will be going with the GMC, that payload is off the charts and the ride was very nice. Interior sux, but what are you gonna do?

It just blew my mind that Ram had the audacity to call it "heavy duty", yet the payload can't even reach 2,000lbs

Ram artificially limits the payloads on the 2500 to fit it into class 2B, same as GMC/Chevy and Ford do with their 3/4 ton pickups. That said, there's only 1 legal way to improve payload on a class 2B truck that's at the GVWR limit, and that's to make the truck lighter. Unless you're cutting out crap electronics (GMC isn't, neither are Ford or Ram, legalities is a *****), you're using either lighter material for everything or less material where it counts. GMC ain't doing that first one.

 

Ram limits the payload to 10,000 lbs. and the truck weighs 8,100, so there is your 1,900 of payload. However look at the door sticker and add up the GVWR of the front and rear axle and it is almost 12,000 lbs.

I was under the impression that 3/4 tons had to be 10k or under legally? either way, the door sticker clearly says it is more capable.

 

Ram limits the payload to 10,000 lbs. and the truck weighs 8,100, so there is your 1,900 of payload. However look at the door sticker and add up the GVWR of the front and rear axle and it is almost 12,000 lbs.

I was under the impression that 3/4 tons had to be 10k or under legally? either way, the door sticker clearly says it is more capable.

"3/4 tons" can be whatever they want to be, but DOT regs regarding commercial hauling and towing bascially exempt 3/4 tons based on 10k max gvw limit before there are commercial rules. Hence the 3/4 ton has always been the workaround to have a real HD pickup for commercially owned vehicles to prevent the DOT regs being imposed.

Now in the last year or more?, both FoMoCo and GM have begun to offer 3/4 ton models with > 10klb gvws. To my knowledge Ram does not yet, however its mostly a marketing scheme for those who "want the most payload" and only know how to read a sticker. (Prolly helps in Western Canada too where the cops go off the door sticker for capacities)
Idk what the Ramifications will be here, but DOT rules have not changed, as a guy could be driving a new 3/4 ton commercially and be out of compliance with DOT regs.

 

This is nothing new, the Cummins weighs more, always has and it takes away from payload. Pretty simple math.

 

Weighs more than what? From what I could find, the Cummins is about 200lbs heavier than the Duramax. Hardly makes up for the huge payload difference.

either way, the door sticker clearly says it is more capable.

Huh? It's exactly the door sticker that tells me it's not capable to handle payload over 2000 lbs. One goes by the weakest component, not the strongest. Just because the axles can handle it, it doesn't mean that everything else could.

 

from what I remember the 10K has to do with regulations that is why they all cap at 10k. Yes you can get the option of 11xxx but you might want to check your insurance rates it might put you into commercial insurance/private use which is costly.
I run all commercial insurance anyway so I do not worry about the up charge.

 

Again, they don't all cap at 10K, only Ram does, and there must be an actual (technical) reason why. The 10K is not a regulation, per se, but some states will make you pay more for it or require special DL class to drive it. No such nonsense in my state, so I'm good on that front.

What about the truck is different than the 3500?

You realize the 2500 ram is basically a 3500 with coils right.....

And yet again, if this is true, why not give those of us, who don't pay extra for driving over 10K, the option to get the 11,000/11,800 GVWR of the 3500 on the 2500?!? There is no law that says 3/4 trucks should cap at 10K GVWR. GMC gives me 3 GVWR options to choose (no charge, no change to equipment), Ram is 10K or nothing. What, Ram doesn't want to sell trucks?

What would you determine the weakest link? If you want the GM, get the GM, you don’t need to make up some odd argument to get it. We won’t look for you and run you down in the street.

Lol, this is not about what I'm buying, I already said I was going with the GMC, there is simply no other option. I couldn't live down the embarrassment of driving a 6.7 Cummins with 1,900 lbs payload 😁 Can you imagine telling someone that your truck can tow 30,000+ lbs, but you can't actually hook up anything heavier than 8,000 lbs?

 

double post.

 

I see the common sense is not strong with you this morning, so I’m out.

 

I dunno what’s dumber. His reason for buying a gm or the fact that he’s worried about capacity when he sold the trailer.

 

🤦🏼‍♂️

 

If the numbers on paper are so important to you, buy a GM or a 3500 SRW. Done.
If you are looking for someone to agree with you, you probably won’t find it. The ‘all of you’ you reference have been here a lot longer than you, and it appears we have had our coffee earlier than you this morning.

 

Has nothing to do with ''can't'', and everything to do with 10,000 lbs. 10,000-truck weight=payload. Simple. They make an SRW 3500 if you want higher numbers. Its there as a way to stay under certain commercial/insurance guidelines. For a long time, the ONLY difference between the 2500 and 3500 was an overload spring and rearend gears. Ford doesn't offer anything but 10,000 GVWR either in a 3/4 ton, and their payload numbers are similar to Ram when equipped with the powerstroke. You can get more with a regular cab or gas...

 

Has nothing to do with ''can't'', and everything to do with 10,000 lbs. 10,000-truck weight=payload. Simple. They make an SRW 3500 if you want higher numbers. Its there as a way to stay under certain commercial/insurance guidelines. For a long time, the ONLY difference between the 2500 and 3500 was an overload spring and rearend gears. Ford doesn't offer anything but 10,000 GVWR either in a 3/4 ton, and their payload numbers are similar to Ram when equipped with the powerstroke. You can get more with a regular cab or gas...

The quality of this forum has really gone downhill fast. Nothing but unsubstantiated opinions...

 

Seems no one has pointed out the obvious answer.

2015+ Ram 2500 = 4 link suspension with coil springs.
GMC 2500 = Leaf springs

This alone is why the GMC can handle more weight for the same class.

 

I agree with you. But also my 2013 Ram 2500 was identical to a 2010-2012 ram 3500 SRW. My gvwr was 10k and the 3500 SrW was more. No physical differences

 

Well I guess there is NO WAY that he could have EVER had a diesel or know anything about them seeing he doesn't drive one. WTH was I thinking.... 🤦‍♂️

 

 

Only a dually is a true 1-ton. 3500's with only 4 tires have the wrong badges.

 

Single Rear Wheels matter!!!

 

Brockman beat me to it.

Almost any vehicle will be fine for 18 months.

 

Sure.

Thanks for the stupid, open ended question hoping to glean opinions, then disagree with all of them.

Would buy a chev in a heartbeat.

If they weren't so ugly.

 

Sure.

Thanks for the stupid, open ended question hoping to glean opinions, then disagree with all of them.

Would buy a chev in a heartbeat.

If they weren't so ugly.

The new GM's seem like they are trying to drive like an Egyptian ....i can't stand the mirrors. Nevermind that they make the hood so darn tall you can't look into it without a step to realize there is no room to work on it. But GM does make a very nice truck for people that just need something to go to and from work, so if the OP wants to hang up his pants in drive in a cushy ride and let other people work on his truck who are we to tell him he is wrong? Some people are more concerned that their heavy duty trucks ride like a princess then care about whether or not their truck actually has what they need. Let them snuggle in their comfort blankets and get a GM, maybe they'll be happy and comfy

 

AndrewMW, hopefully you aren't really this dense to not understand what's happening here. Everything is about marketing. There is no difference between a RAM 2500 and 3500 aside from the rear suspension, and the rear differential on HO models. As others have said, for many years Ford, GM, RAM all made 250/350 (or 2500/3500) models which had a 10,000 GVWR. Now, GM wants to brag about "the highest payload in the 3/4 ton class" and the easiest way to do that is arbitrarily raise the GVWR, and likely offer stiffer rear leafs. There are no other changes to the GM truck. Do you suppose it would be "hard" for RAM to slap in a stiffer rear coil and also arbitrarily raise their 3/4 ton GVWR? Or for Ford to offer stiffer leafs and do the same? Do you honestly think RAM and Ford "can't" handle the higher load in the 3/4 ton, despite both offering 1-ton SRW models with identical frames, axles, brakes, etc?

No. Rather, going higher than 10k defeats the point of the 3/4 ton truck...you might as well buy a SRW 3500. 10k GVW lets a lot of hot shot truckers get away with towing a gooseneck without a CDL. Many states require medical cards / DOT numbers for operating a Class III truck for business, even at anything above 10k GVW.

 

AndrewMW, hopefully you aren't really this dense to not understand what's happening here. Everything is about marketing. There is no difference between a RAM 2500 and 3500 aside from the rear suspension, and the rear differential on HO models. As others have said, for many years Ford, GM, RAM all made 250/350 (or 2500/3500) models which had a 10,000 GVWR. Now, GM wants to brag about "the highest payload in the 3/4 ton class" and the easiest way to do that is arbitrarily raise the GVWR, and likely offer stiffer rear leafs. There are no other changes to the GM truck. Do you suppose it would be "hard" for RAM to slap in a stiffer rear coil and also arbitrarily raise their 3/4 ton GVWR? Or for Ford to offer stiffer leafs and do the same? Do you honestly think RAM and Ford "can't" handle the higher load in the 3/4 ton, despite both offering 1-ton SRW models with identical frames, axles, brakes, etc?

No. Rather, going higher than 10k defeats the point of the 3/4 ton truck...you might as well buy a SRW 3500. 10k GVW lets a lot of hot shot truckers get away with towing a gooseneck without a CDL. Many states require medical cards / DOT numbers for operating a Class III truck for business, even at anything above 10k GVW.

C'mon man, I just pasted a screenshot from Ford showing you that the 10K is an optional package for the f250, normally the GVWR on an f250 is 10,800...It's this type of ignorance in this forum that grinds my gears.

 

Just go out and buy a 5500 and be done with it.

 

I figured it out, you have to add the heavy duty towing package to bump the 10k to 10,800 on the F250

 

I really hope this guy didn’t go out and vote today.

 

According to his logic, if your not a politician you can’t vote.

 

Could it be that common core stuff that makes "GVWR - weight = payload" so hard to grasp?
Where's our resident high school math teacher when we need her?

 

This is why I am glad I don't teach K-12 and instead college. The curriculum is making our society much dumber and unable to be a high functioning adult.

 

Actually, a 2500 gasser (with Cummins badging) would be perfect for him. He has the soft ride, payload of 2,900 lbs, and towing capacity of 17,200. He can have the ‘bragging rights’ of over 2,000 lbs, which is most important!
Because it really doesn’t matter what the truck can do, it’s just the badging and what’s on paper that counts.

 

Didn't he mention that a 2500 really is a 1/2-ton? If so, the obvious choice would be an Ecodiesel with Cummins and 3500 badges.

And for some reason, this sticker always come to mind when these load/towing threads come up.
The real kicker is that it's on a trailer.

 

Rayanne23's ex?

 

Okay, maybe 2 things.

 

I debadged my truck, what is my payload/tow rating now.........................

 

Should be like mine...a few ounces higher.

 

In the "Better late than never" category, here is some real news. 150, 250, 350 450, 550, 650, 750 or the same x 10 refers to the class rating of the truck. Here's why it matters:

US truck class	Duty classification	Weight limit [1][7]	Examples
Class 1	Light truck	0–6,000 pounds (0–2,722 kg)	Chevrolet Colorado/GMC Canyon, Ford Ranger, Nissan Navara, Jeep Gladiator, Toyota Tacoma, Honda Ridgeline FWD[8]
Class 2a	Light truck	6,001–8,500 pounds (2,722–3,856 kg)	Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra 1500, Ford F-150, Nissan Titan, Ram 1500, Toyota Tundra, Dodge Dakota, Honda Ridgeline AWD[8][9][10]
Class 2b	Light/Medium truck	8,501–10,000 pounds (3,856–4,536 kg)	Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra 2500, Ford F-250, Nissan Titan XD, Ram 2500[8][9][10]
Class 3	Medium truck	10,001–14,000 pounds (4,536–6,350 kg)	Isuzu NPR,[11] Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra 3500, Ford F-350, Ram 3500, Ford F-450 (pickup only)
Class 4	Medium truck	14,001–16,000 pounds (6,351–7,257 kg)	Isuzu NPR-HD,[11] Chevrolet Silverado 4500, Ford F-450 (chassis cab), Ram 4500[8]
Class 5	Medium truck	16,001–19,500 pounds (7,258–8,845 kg)	Isuzu NRR,[11] Chevrolet Silverado 5500, Ford F-550, Ram 5500, Kenworth T170, Peterbilt 325, International TerraStar [12]
Class 6	Medium truck	19,501–26,000 pounds (8,846–11,793 kg)	Chevrolet Kodiak C6500, Ford F-650, Kenworth T270, Peterbilt 330, International Durastar [13]
Class 7	Heavy truck	26,001–33,000 pounds (11,794–14,969 kg)	Autocar ACMD, GMC C7500, Kenworth T470 & T440 & T370, Peterbilt 220 & 337, Ford F-750 [14]
Class 8	Heavy truck	33,001 pounds (14,969 kg) +	Autocar ACX, Autocar DC, International WorkStar, Freightliner Cascadia, Kenworth T600, Kenworth T660, Kenworth T680, Kenworth W900, Kenworth W990, Kenworth T880, Kenworth T800 Orange EV T-Series Electric, Mack Granite, Peterbilt 579, Peterbilt 389[15] - Semi-trailer trucks fall into this category

For general run of the mill non commercial driving, it matters only to the insurance company who is having to pay a claim to someone you hit while towing over ratings. Otherwise, if you are driving commercial, as mentioned earlier, it matters because of what you are rated for. You can always down rate your vehicle if you are driving commercial and take your 3500 dually and rate it for 10,000 lbs with the DMV. But if you're caught towing over, it is a DOT fine and other issues. Legally, a 3500 shouldn't be rated over 14,000 lbs. What's funny is that the F450 Pickup is still rated a Class 3. I think that may have been changed recently.
Chris

 

What's funny is that the F450 Pickup is still rated a Class 3. I think that may have been changed recently.

Ford's way of segmenting models is weird. Physically, the pickups and chassis cabs aren't the same. Ford Chassis cabs have thicker frames behind the cab and they're C channel frames.

Whereas Ram uses the same frame on all 2500s and the "consumer" 3500s (not the explicit chassis cabs, but they now offer the option for a box delete on the 2500 and 3500).