Get the fuel pressure tested. When was the last fuel filter put on?

 

Is there a way to test the fuel pressure myself. Or perform a different test for that. The Fuel Filter was replaced less than 1000 miles ago.

 

Hmm, forgot it was an 03.

Not sure about the common rails.

Someone should jump in here.

 

Just Wondering whats the odds it could be the Crank shaft position sensor. I have cracked the lines leading the the injection and fuel is squirting out when i bump the starter. Just wondering also I am not sure if it was just a fluke or if actualy had anything to do with it. There has been two times when it wasnt wanting to start that I took the fuel filter out then put it right back in and it would start up for me maybe not the first but on the second crank it would, but that trick no longer works.

 

injector(s)

 

I Have Had Many Come Through My Shop With This Problem. On A Common Rail System If One Injector Has A High Fuel Return Rate (lowering Common Fuel Pressure) It Will Cause A Hard Start Or No Start Condition. The Best Fix Is To Change All 6 Injectors. It Is Next To Impossible To Isolate That Injector (if There Is A Way I Would Love To Know). Also If One Injector Fails The Rest Shortly To Follow. In My Opinion Remove And Replace Six Injectors And Start Running Stanadyne Fuel Conditioner. Low Sulfur Fuel Kills Fuel Systems.

 

Will this "high fuel return rate" be seen as lower rail pressure readings (if you have a rail pressure guage)??

steved

 

I appreciate your responses. Ok now with a new question. If it is the injectors would it be better to replace with stock or should I go with something else if so what is the better choice.

Not that I question your input but its hard to fathom that the truck runs just fine i.e. no power loss no stalling not luggish at all once I get it started it just wont start. Again I appreciate your input.

 

I think when you buy aftermarket injectors the difference is in the nozzle not the injector itself, not even sure if you actually get a new injector. Once again i'm not sure, but you should look into it more.

 

I Had A Oilfield Truck With The Same Problem And Never Had Time To R&r Injectors. We Sent It Out To Work And About 800 Miles Later The Truck Stalled And We Could Not Get It Running Again. It Seemed The Fuel Return Rate Increased And There Was Not Enought Fuel Pressure To Keep The Truck Running. Again I Stress Fuel Conditioner.

There Is No Advantage To Running Different Injectors Other Than Hp Rating. Shop Around, Pricing Varys. Again I Stress Running Fuel Conditioner.

 

OK folks I am totaly confused. My truck has not started via starter all week. Had to roll start it everywhere i went. Well tonight I drained the fuel out of the fuel filter canister then primed it again and after bumping the starter 3 times waiting a while and then trying the damn thing cranked, and continued to crank the rest of the day.

 

Alright Folks I am back again in search of some opinions answer something. Like I mentioned earlier yesterday I drained the fuel filter cansiter then reprimmed it. IT cranked after a few tries which is more than it has done all week. Well that lasted till this evening it started acting up again. I am nut sure what I was thinking but for some reason I told my buddy to jump me off just why not ya know. Cause so far out ten people I have asked I have gotten like 50 possible problems, anyway well we hooked the trucks and and wouldnt you know it my truck fired up right away. So could all this be just bad batteries. I mean it has been cranking never sounded like a week crank but it just throws me for a loop.

 

Does it not crank, or just not start? Could just be a loose cable, or a starter. If it's the starter you should check out fostertruck.com/dodge for new tabs (vs $300 new starter) or make your own... Another trick to check for bad connections is put a volt meter on either side of a connection and measure the voltage when you crank it. Good connection=no voltage bad connection =1or more volts.

 

It turns over just dont start. I am at a complete lose. All weekend it would pick and choose when it wanted to start. When it dont start it cranks like it wants to start just never fires over. I can roll start it no problem then it runs perfect. Sometimes draining the fuel filter canister and repriming works sometimes it dont. I have a crankshaft position sensor on order. Two months ago it threw about three different codes at me and that happened to be one of them. One day the codes were there the next day they were gone and havent been back yet but i figured what they heck one less thing to trouble shoot. I called Cummins on friday and talked to someone up there and he told me to check my pressure relief valve cause he hadnt heard of injectors failing well where the heck is the pressure relief valve or is he just feeding me full of crap I would greatly appreciate any and all ides

 

I still say injectors. I know it's tough to swallow. Possibly the relief, which is located on the fuel rail, but I don't think it would run good if it was leaking by.Remove the banjo fitting at the top bend line out way and wrap a rag around it, fuel will come from pump return. Clean out top of relief and turn over engine for 15 sec. no fuel on top of relief = good.

It likely cranked with a jump because it turned over faster turning the injection pump faster which built up enough rail pressure. If you can get a rail pressure gauge you'd likely see you don't have enough because it's flowing right through the injectors and back to the tank. After a good drive see if your fuel tank is warm.

Do a search on injector flow return test. You don't need any special tools for a total return, if you modify the procedure slightly.

How many miles on truck?

 

Oh yeah check the fuel control actuator, it's the piece that meters flow to the injection pump( on pump with wire). With wire unhooked it should be full flow. Pull it off and make sure the valve moves freely. You can use a small allen wrench pushing through the center hole to push the piston back. It should move easy, and spring back easy.
I can't find it now but there is a TSB for a hard start/no start issue that is basically a troubleshooting procedure that would be good reading.
Parts are way cheaper from a diesel shop that from Dodge.
Good luck!

 

TSB 14-003-06

 

A word of Caution here, dont open the injector line's on a common rail, the system is self bleeding and has extremely high pressure.

 

Thanks to all for their suggestions and help I appreciate it.
Shook where is the fuel control actuator located?
Took it for a good drive the tank didnt feel warm. I guess for now I will continue to just always park on a hill. Till I can save up and get some injectors, and I just hope thats it.

Thanks again to everyone that helped.

 

Fuel control actuator is the little solenoid on the bottom of the CP3 injection pump that has a two wire connector running to it. It is on the drivers side of the engine mounted to the timing cover. I dont know how many miles your truck has on it, but if it is getting near 100K you are going to need a lift pump NOW. It will leave you stranded at the worst time. There are guys here that will say they have like five million miles on their stockers, but history has proven the pumps to be quite unreliable. Lift pump will cause a no start condition, but they usually fail after driving some time and the truck will just stall for no reason.

 

FWIW, I was reading a thread the other day and one of our members that is a Dodge tech was indicating that the injectors can bypass fuel and that if one injector is bypassing, you will get all kinds of starting a driveability problems. He further indicated it is impossible to tell which on is doing it, so all should be replaced.

Intermittent problems have vacuum, so to speak... Best of luck.

 

Here is a procedure. I modified it once cause I did not have the tool 9012. I pulled the hose off at the injector pump return line, ran it to dump in bucket. Pinched off tank return and measured the return off on the other side where I pulled the hose off. I considered this an aceptable method after confirming none was coming through relief valve. If it fails total return then you decide if you want to buy tools 9011.

However this method is great if you only have one bad injector but if they are all worn this will not help isolate the injector. But a failing test might make it easier to fork out $2300 for a set of new ones.


1. * INJECTOR RETURN FLOW TEST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Operate the engine until the engine is at operating temperature.
2. Remove the banjo connector from the fuel drain tube at the rear of the fuel filter housing.
3. Install fuel system test fitting 9012 in place of the banjo connector.
4. Remove the vehicle fuel return line from the engine fuel drain tube. Route this hose into a container to catch bled fuel.
5. Install a piece of fuel line onto the test fitting and into a fuel container or into the fuel tank.
6. Install one end of a test hose onto the fuel drain tube. Place the other end of the test hose into a graduated cylinder.
7. Start the engine and let it idle for one minute.
8. Measure the amount of fuel in the graduated cylinder.
9. If the flow is less than 180-ml/minute, the test has successfully passed.
10. If the flow is greater than 180 ml/minute, shut off the engine and remove all of the fuel injector supply lines. Re torque all of the high-pressure connector nuts. Install all of the fuel injector supply lines.
11. Start the engine and idle for one minute. Measure the amount of fuel in the graduated cylinder.
12. If the flow is less than 180ml/minute, the condition has been fixed.
13. If the flow is greater than 180 ml/minute after step 12, shut off the engine and remove the #1 fuel injector supply line. Re torque the high-pressure connector nut. Cap the #1 fuel port using tool 9011 on the fuel rail and the #1 high pressure connector.
14. Start the engine. Measure the amount of fuel in the graduated cylinder.
15. If the amount of fuel is less than 180 ml/minute, shut off the engine and remove the #1 high pressure connector and the #1 fuel injector. Inspect for damage, repair/replace as necessary.
16. If the amount of fuel is not less than 180-ml/minute, repeat steps 14-16 for cylinders 2-6.
17. Install all high-pressure connectors, fuel injectors, and fuel injector supply lines. Repeat steps 1-8 to confirm repair.

SPECIFICATION:Less than 180 ml/minute total fuel return flow

 

OK I tired the test and it passed the test I got way less than 180ml/min. I did not follow the test word for word. I just disconnected the return line and put a hose on that and drained that into a container would that matter? I also got a infared temp gauge and checked the exhuast temp of each cylinder and they were all pretty much the same 1 of 2 degrees different. I did install an aftermarket fuel pump on it but that didnt seem to make a difference either. I am just baffled as to why when i drian the fuel filter housing and then re prime it that the truck will start. This trick will allow me a few starts before it goes back to cranking with no start. That has become my trick for when I need to go to the store since most wally worlds dont have a sloped parking lot to allow me to roll start it. I tried to take the Fuel Control Actuater off and clean it or look at it but i twisted my torkheads trying to remove it. Any other ideas would be appreciated.

I also wanted to add that intermittently I get the P 2509 code which is CM/PCM Power Input Signal Interm it will show up then later in the same day or next day it wont be there. It mainly seems to show up when I have problems starting and it dont start but it will disappear after I do the fuel filter trick or if i roll start it a few times.

Also I have a K&N filter and air intake (i know horrible me) there is no box around its just out in the open the the map senser to the side with its own little filter could this be the problem I am just dumb founded at this. I have been trying to avoid taking it to the stealership to have it checked but looks like thats what I am gonna have to do.

 

I had a question about a way to test for a bad injector was just wondering if anyone else had heard of this or not. I was told that if you cap off the fuel line leading into the injectors and go one by one capping off individual injectors that it would pin point a bad injector if the truck started when u capped off the bad injector. Not sure if that sounds right will it start on only 5 cyl. then Of course if ya have more than one bad I understand the test wont be useful. In my case I think I only have one bad one.

 

For one of the tests, they tell you to unplug the injectors from the harness one at a time until the problem goes away...that one that made it clear up is your bad injector...

steved

 

Will this "high fuel return rate" be seen as lower rail pressure readings (if you have a rail pressure guage)??

steved YES

 

I have the same problem 2003 dodge 3500 4x4 cummins. it hard to start . some does not start. took it dodge. they tested it .injector flow was 350ml in 60 seconds and injector pump return flow was 70 ml in 60 seconds this good need to replace all 6 injectors.there are some after market stok injectors.witch brand is good dynomite or Bosch injectors? where I can ge cheap. thanks