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So the only problem I am reading is everyone is referencing OLDER Cummins engines.

Yeah I know calling 2 year old engines older is odd but it was a different fuel system.

With this CP4 these trucks may turn out to be giant turds in 5+ years. Or they could be good as ever. No one knows yet!
 

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Sasquatch
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In the case of the Powerstroke, it's also uses the CP4 as well.

The CP4 can last, we already know enough about them from the early TDI days that water is the main enemy. The big thing is not skipping out on the water separator and using a water dispersant additive (Powerservice anti-gel) if you get bad fuel. If your fuel has biodiesel in it, change your water separator more frequently(biodiesel reduces the life of the water separator). Fortunately, Cummins waited to learn from others about the filtration needed for the CP4 and tested it on the ISV 5.0.

It's worth noting that the most notorious CP4 issue was the older CP4.1 2011-2014 CBEA and CJAA VW TDI. The NHTSA's report on it found that even with the high amount of failures, it was around a 0.5 percent failure rate in the MY2009, .1 percent in the MY2010 after the first revision. The first generation CP4.2 in the B6.7 is already miles ahead of the old design of more than a decade ago, along with better filtration. The updated CP4.2 that's being used in the newer versions of the 2020(and a replacement if the 2019 and early 2020 has a failure) will likely have failure rates lower than the 2010 TDI. The 2015 TDI's CP4.1 failure rate is practically non-existent.
 

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Looking at a Ram 2500 vs F-250 powerstroke.

I like both trucks but am leaning towards the Ram. Here is the big issue, however.

Ram only offers the ‘standard output’ in the 2500. Which is something like 75 HP and 200 TQ less than the powerstroke. That is a huge gap torque wise. I tow a lot. Every day.

the ‘high output’ is only offered in the 3500 series. I can get a 3500 SRW but they are pretty difficult to find.

this just seems like a glaring oversight on Ram’s part.
Ever want to try a programmer to up the hp & tq?
 

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Ram only offers the ‘standard output’ in the 2500. Which is something like 75 HP and 200 TQ less than the powerstroke. That is a huge gap torque wise. I tow a lot. Every day.

the ‘high output’ is only offered in the 3500 series. I can get a 3500 SRW but they are pretty difficult to find.
Keep in mind tho it’s not an apples to apples comparison. A total of 75 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque using 2 less cylinders and (in most cases) 1 less turbo? The better question (after accounting for the real world dyno results) is what could Ram get with a V8 and twin turbos? Obviously the goal was not numbers otherwise they would have changed the whole truck. If I recall correctly, Ram has / had the highest tow rates with 2 less cylinders and 1 less turbo. That shows greater efficiency. When I first got my truck I was getting 20 mpg which beat my old GMC 5.3L V8 (max tow was like 9Korea something). Not bad for a big truck.

just my opinion...
 
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I've had a 3500 HO and currently have a 2500 SO. To be honest, I really didn't notice a difference between the 2 except the drive-ability and ride of the 2500 is far better. I really don't think you are going to notice much in the power department out on the road either. I have Ford and Chevy friends who beat me bench racing (especially with the 10 speed topic), but then there's my 2500 SO doing what all the rest of the truck are doing. It pulls my garbage up and down all the same hills as their trucks, and my old HO truck. Just as fast, just as easy. Out on the highway, those numbers are just numbers and a SO CTD is just fine. I laugh at them as they brag about all of their gears. I guess the broad torque band of the Cummins doesn't need to split gears.

If you are towing heavy, 15k+ lbs, then go 3500 with the HO. Not so much for the extra power, but for the payload and towing capacities. If you're under that, get a 2500 that is nice and smooth, and won't spill your coffee all over you when the road gets bumpy.

Edit: To add to my post.... I think RAM stuck with the SO CTD in the 2500 because the 2500 isn't rated to tow/haul as much and most 2500 buyers are are looking for better driveability and comfort while having a large diesel truck. The HO/Aisin is a bit more industrial and less friendly when used as a daily/unloaded driver and it really isn't necessary to have a 1000ft/lbs on a truck rated to pull less and used is a lighter manner.
I agree on most if that but for comfort I wanted a truck not a car, my 07 3500 is a bit stiff since its also a 4x4, but drivelbility is awesome. I've had the 2500 but it underperformed Pulling 19,000 lbs, i could have stiffened the back end, but did not have to with the 3500. Im still a single wheel running an ho 5.9 beefed a tiny bit with a tranny change to allison. I could not have fared as well with the 2500.
 

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Keep in mind tho it’s not an apples to apples comparison. A total of 75 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque using 2 less cylinders and (in most cases) 1 less turbo? The better question (after accounting for the real world dyno results) is what could Ram get with a V8 and twin turbos? Obviously the goal was not numbers otherwise they would have changed the whole truck. If I recall correctly, Ram has / had the highest tow rates with 2 less cylinders and 1 less turbo. That shows greater efficiency. When I first got my truck I was getting 20 mpg which beat my old GMC 5.3L V8 (max tow was like 9Korea something). Not bad for a big truck.

just my opinion...
None of the current diesels have 2 turbos on them. And they are all pretty much the same displacement.

The difference is the lower delivery. The V8 is going to be and feel quicker when empty but hook a load to them and things even out a lot.


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The stiff bouncy ride is equally the same on 2500 & 3500 4x4's its the straight axle front end that does it. My past GM trucks rode better with independent suspension. There isn't a huge difference in overall ride 2500 vs 3500
 

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They may be the same displacement or close to it, but them tiny pistons in the V8’s aren’t nearly as beefy as a Cummins!
 

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Looking at a Ram 2500 vs F-250 powerstroke.

I like both trucks but am leaning towards the Ram. Here is the big issue, however.

Ram only offers the ‘standard output’ in the 2500....
You need to get the Aisin transmission and you can only get that in the 3500. The Chrysler auto is limited in the power it can handle.
 

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Meh, still tiny in comparison.

It’s like saying that a 440 or 426 Hemi is has bigger pistons than the 400....not true.
 

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I towed my 5er with my 2500 and followed my brother in law’s Powerstroke 350 with a lighter trailer up a decent grade and his truck got very hot while mine was fine. Not very scientific for sure but with his higher torque and hp it didn’t matter when it counted. (I am sure he would crush me in a quarter mile but I didn’t buy my truck for that. I prefer the the truck for towing—If I want to drive fast I have a car). Not very scientific in the comparison for sure and he might have had some other issue at play but his additional HP was no help.

I tow a heavy 5er often enough in SoCal heat up grade and never once have had issues. Temps have risen but drop immediately when the fan kicks on. 68RFE had a bad valve body out of the factory but once that was diagnosed and fixed (under warranty) no issues there. Only 40k miles so admittedly still early on the tranny but I think my torque and HP are more than adequate in the real world.


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One of the best features on the Ford is the heated rear bumper. That way your friends hands don’t get cold when they are helping push in the winter.
 

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IMHO; They can all do the job. The size of the job dictates the capacity needed. The question I asked myself is not why a 2500, but why a RAM?

There is a LOT to be said for simplicity which equates to reliability, dependability and serviceability.
 
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but why a RAM?
1. The Ford trucks got ugly like the older butt ugly Dodges.
2. The Peugeot has a 12" screen, active noise cancellation, and a quiet diesel.

If Ford had a decent looking DRW, a larger display (12" or bigger) and an interior that was as quiet as the Peugeot, I would have bought a Ford instead of La Puta.

An added benefit is that the AC would come with a factory designed and built bypass valve, which is 15+ year old technology. Plus, I think the capacity of the Ford bed step was tested using dummies instead of owners. LOL.
 

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The Ford interior looks cheap imo.
Chevy interior looks good, but it's not a RAM. Lol.
 
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I don't know much about Ford's or Chevy 2500's but one thing that was attractive in the RAM is the design stability. When a manufacturer uses some of the same major drive train parts for 8 years, it means they did it right and didn't have to improve. It also means parts are available at a lower price and the vehicle is more easily serviced. For me, those were important factors in my purchase.
 
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I don't know much about Ford's or Chevy 2500's but one thing that was attractive in the RAM is the design stability. When a manufacturer uses some of the same major drive train parts for 8 years, it means they did it right and didn't have to improve.
If a weld on a drag link works, why change it.:cool:
 

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They've all got their positives and negatives.

GM uses that stupid wax covered frame and front diff that can be kind of weak

Ford crams a huge ass engine in a bay that barely fits and makes it a nightmare to work on.

Ram has lackluster transmissions and AC that can kind of suck.

Each has many more good, and many more bad. Pick what you want, for your reasons, and enjoy it. If it turns out to be a turd that burns your ass, try a different one next time.
 
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