[GSM24]

So you're saying the Ford radiators are defective? Isn't that what I posted before in this thread? I'm saying the C-channel frame has nothing to do with radiator failures, Ford has a defective Radiator design.:wink2:

I'm a Civil and Structural Engineer. I've been so for 30 years. I work in building and bridge design but not automotive but I do understand mechanics and material properties. The video the guy posted clearly showed the radiator flexing when the front tire was lifted off the ground. Something has to be moving to cause the radiator mount to fail. Based on what I saw, the cause of the radiator damage on the 6.4L trucks was flex in the frame.

However, how many people utilize their trucks under conditions that will cause the frame to flex enough to cause radiator damage? I would guess farmers and maybe some contractors. The average joe-blow like myself never put my truck in a situation where the frame would be under that much stress. The worst I ever put my truck through is driving on a graded dirt road that turned to mud during thunderstorms.

Ford has radiator problems. Ram has ball joint and front end problems. Ram fixed my ball joint issue. From reading the radiator problems, Ford is not fixing the radiators. That is typical of my experience with Ford. FOMOCO is bad about fixing problems with their products and try's to push the problems back to the owner. I don't know about Ram because nothings gone wrong with my truck other than 4 recalls that were fixed in a timely manner.

 

[DSLTRK]

No, the test is BS because neither frame is superior, and it's put on by a manufacturer.

If the test was about handling characteristics or something that really mattered, then I'd bite. If you want to test for traction, then the Ram leaves something to be desired. Reverse psychology, baby.

Flex is not always a good thing, and neither is rigid. Rigid frames tend to have more cyclic vibration problems then c-channel, and vice versa, c-channel frames tend to have freeway, low frequency oscillations. Rust and up-fitting is also an issue with boxed frames. Repair is also an issue with boxed frames. Boxed frames are better for handling. In 2017 it wont really matter 'cause Ford jumped on the boxed frame bandwagon.



Ding ding ding, we have a winner. The problem is poor design of the radiator and mounts.

If the old frame design is fine why you suppose Ford is moving to a boxed frame design? To keep up with the competition or because its better? In making the move would it not add more weight to the frame?

Could it possibly be that they are correcting the mistake of too much flex...?

The boxed frames are better because handling is more pronounced and the frame is actually lighter than the c channel due to use of stronger steel. The dumb ads have a little effect also due to perception.

 

[kleinbus]

Crossing the river (Moab)



and using the available suspension travel to climb up the bank

 

[zukiman]

I'm usually wrong. I owned a 2008 6.4l F350. I never heard of any problems with the radiators being damaged by frame twisting. Who in their right mind would use a pickup as an off roader where there would be the potential for frame twisting? Trucks suck off roading..

I take mine off road pretty frequently... Most of the time I have my slide in camper in the bed (2500+ pounds). While it's usually on the beach there are a few times when the frame would twist some when there would be a sudden change of the depth of the sand or terrain. I had a 2002 F250 before my Ram and took it off road as well and didn't have any issues either... Only sold it cause I needed a crew cab long bed...

 

[DodgeMech]

So you're saying the Ford radiators are defective? Isn't that what I posted before in this thread? I'm saying the C-channel frame has nothing to do with radiator failures, Ford has a defective Radiator design.:wink2:

say what you will about mr hewitt, but i think he makes some valid points...and i'd like to add, if the frame was stiffer, the body wouldn't flex as much, which would mean the radiator wouldn't move as much

 

[dundonrl]

Crossing the river (Moab)



and using the available suspension travel to climb up the bank

why are you off the pavement, aren't you aware that our Rams, with the stiff frame aren't meant to go off road, that's only for the Fords with a "compliant" frame that can bend, so the suspension doesn't have to do as much work.. :stirpot:

 

[Jared Herzog]

My 2010 and 2013 Tundra had a frame that would flex also. Wish i could upload videos. Go to you tube and check out the Tundra twerking video. The first few times i was looking in the side mirrors it freaked me out to see the bed bouncing around.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

 

[ralmeida]

Have any of you haven't seen a tractor trailer truck flex the chassis under hard acceleration with a load? I had all of the big 3 hd trucks, the Ford has the best work truck (landscaping and lowing), but there Diesel engines are too darn expensive too maintain, the gm is the most reliable (power train wise) but the truck can't be abused, the diesel ram (older ones) can't keep trannys or front ends together, they all have there issues, also one of the reasons you see so much Ford on the road, specially 450 and 550 is because they push them hard and give any one with more than on vehicle fleet cost on there hd trucks. I keep all my trucks stock,

 

[dieselwelder]

Have any of you haven't seen a tractor trailer truck flex the chassis under hard acceleration with a load? I had all of the big 3 hd trucks, the Ford has the best work truck (landscaping and lowing), but there Diesel engines are too darn expensive too maintain, the gm is the most reliable (power train wise) but the truck can't be abused, the diesel ram (older ones) can't keep trannys or front ends together, they all have there issues, also one of the reasons you see so much Ford on the road, specially 450 and 550 is because they push them hard and give any one with more than on vehicle fleet cost on there hd trucks. I keep all my trucks stock,

Your 3/4 or 1 ton truck isn't a 80,000 lbs GVWR vehicle either..... Semi trucks also do not have beds, tailgates, four door cabs or even cabs that twist during frame flex like pick up trucks do. A lot of the twist you see in semi trucks is suspension and not frame flex.... If steel flexed that much everyday ...day in and day out... The steel would work harden and fracture. The boxed frame on the Ram is all about better payload control and is also greatly responsible for the high tow rating that Ram has on their one tons. Ford's F450 frame is totally different than the F350. Watch when Ford introduces their new frame design they will be up there with Ram in the tow rating.

 

[DSLTRK]

Have any of you haven't seen a tractor trailer truck flex the chassis under hard acceleration with a load? I had all of the big 3 hd trucks, the Ford has the best work truck (landscaping and lowing), but there Diesel engines are too darn expensive too maintain, the gm is the most reliable (power train wise) but the truck can't be abused, the diesel ram (older ones) can't keep trannys or front ends together, they all have there issues, also one of the reasons you see so much Ford on the road, specially 450 and 550 is because they push them hard and give any one with more than on vehicle fleet cost on there hd trucks. I keep all my trucks stock,

Your 3/4 or 1 ton truck isn't a 80,000 lbs GVWR vehicle either..... Semi trucks also do not have beds, tailgates, four door cabs or even cabs that twist during frame flex like pick up trucks do. A lot of the twist you see in semi trucks is suspension and not frame flex.... If steel flexed that much everyday ...day in and day out... The steel would work harden and fracture. The boxed frame on the Ram is all about better payload control and is also greatly responsible for the high tow rating that Ram has on their one tons. Ford's F450 frame is totally different than the F350. Watch when Ford introduces their new frame design they will be up there with Ram in the tow rating.

There's nothing wrong with the c channel frame. The old adage "if it aint broke dont fix it" holds well. These chassis have been in use for decades and trucks have racked up hundreds of thousands of miles on em without issue. I'm in that crowd.

You go on and on how there is imminent failure but that remains to be seen from me and millions of other dodge and ford owners. Imminent failure is a defect that is consistantly seen such as the poor quality welds on track bar brackets or improperly mounted Ford radiators.

Fyi the current F450 rides on the same exact frame as the 250 and 350 trucks. It's the axles and springs that allow the higher gvwr.

 

[7492]

833 posts and you haven't seen this yet?

Ford frames have worked well in the past, just like Class 8 truck frames. Rest assured, their frames will be stronger and stiffer than the competition in 2017.

I have a couple more posts than that, and I've never seen it. Does it mean something ?

 

[ralmeida]

Interesting, I actually drive semi's and the chassis does flex even empty tractor alone...

 

[ramrod1990]

There's nothing wrong with the c channel frame. The old adage "if it aint broke dont fix it" holds well. These chassis have been in use for decades and trucks have racked up hundreds of thousands of miles on em without issue. I'm in that crowd.

If this were true then why go away from from the c channel frame and go fully boxed for 2017? Why not just try to make the c channel better?

 

[tonyb337]

I have seen a similar video before but with a Chevy in the twisted mix. The Chevy had the worst flex as you couldn't open the doors let alone the tail gate. (Don't remember the model year though)
However, it's basically a difference in engineering!!!
More flex in the frame will have a somewhat better ride, going beyond what the suspension absorbs.
Allowing some flex will help avoid stress cracks or fractures that "could" possibly occur on a frame that is to stiff. Not saying this will happen to our Rams here either. Just saying!

I'm NOT and engineer, but I know a bunch of them and have to work with them daily as I have been building and working on large twin isle Boeing airplanes for 10 years now.
Airplane fuselages and especially wings, MUST flex. this does not mean they are not strong. A single Boeing 777 wing weighs about 43K LBS and caries about 93K+ LBS of fuel. That's 15,500 gallons in each wing. From fully fueled on ground, to in air the wing tip has 14 vertical feet of flex!

Flex is not necessarily a bad thing.
Unless you can't open your doors or tailgate.

Agreed, way way back in the day the Peterbuilt became popular for the same reason, the frame was more flexible than the others making a better ride,the rest is history,but of course they don't have tailgates..lol

 

[DSLTRK]

There's nothing wrong with the c channel frame. The old adage "if it aint broke dont fix it" holds well. These chassis have been in use for decades and trucks have racked up hundreds of thousands of miles on em without issue. I'm in that crowd.

If this were true then why go away from from the c channel frame and go fully boxed for 2017? Why not just try to make the c channel better?

Because it's a dinosaur. Just like a 12v and 7.3.

The boxed frame, while it has certain shortcomings, provides better handling and is lighter for better fuel economy. I'd love to see all trucks built with a hybrid flat deck frame like found on the 4500 and up trucks.

 

[tonyb337]

I wonder if you would combine the GMC and Chevy,, sales(same truck) if Ford would have that big of a lead on sales on the f150,,they are adding up one model while they divide the GM in two separate truck sales?

 

[ralmeida]

the GM trucks (GMC and Chevy combined) outsell all other by a large number.

 

[Danderson]

My '98.5 CTD had a stiffer frame than an F-250 of that year.
My stock CTD also buzzed into a Baja spot at 25-35 mph. My friend's stock F-250 with leafs had to creep,same year.
The 2007 of mine has a stiffer yet frame with the nice compliant frontend.

 

[Dogpatch]

After all this banter, I'm going to sell my Ram 3500 and buy either a Prius or a mountain bike.

NOT!

 

[Danderson]

After all this banter, I'm going to sell my Ram 3500 and buy either a Prius or a mountain bike.

NOT!

Me too! Coincidentally,my wife and I drove 40 miles offroad on a fairly decent road to a primitive forest service camp in southern Utah.
Lo and behold at the top was a Prius minus a very damaged undercarriage and exhaust but nevertheless it made it.:wink2: