[ramrod1990]

I would beg to differ that guys don't use their trucks for everyday real world purposes where the frames could get twisted and that trucks suck off road. Don't want to have people start bashing on this guy but AKDeVo is a member on here with a badass rig and be bought his truck specifically for driving in the back country of Alaska on really crappy roads and trails...for his job...everyday. Not that i can speak for him but something like this if I saw it and I was in his position would be a concern when I went to buy my next truck.

 

[ramrod1990]

And I'm talking about the twisting frame and those side effects not the radiator.

 

[djkrage]

Ha, nope, the Ford radiators fail because the radiators are a defective design. The frame has nothing to do with it.

I have the "weaker" c-channel on my '06 with over 225,000 miles on it, original plastic Ford radiator, no leaks, cracks or repairs. My truck has had the roughest abuse you can throw at pickups also, everyday bouncing, flexin', twisting down a f'd dirt road. My truck has been through terrain at least once, that makes this test look cute.

The Ram/GM frame test is just another BS manufacturer ad, just like Ford did with the Tundra and Silver Creek spot.

Proof's in the pudding, not dumb ads that create unrealistic scenarios. I've seen Ford trucks with 200, 300, 400, 500, 600,000 + miles on 'em and their "weak" c-channel frames.:grin2:

Your 06 is a different truck than the 08-10. Those were the "radiator eaters". I watched the torque shift at the radiator mounts with my own eyes as an employee lifted up on the LF wheel with a fork lift. Frame twist added a ton of stress to the radiator.

Deny it all you want... Denial simply does not change truth. Truth is truth regardless of your belief.

I own an F450, 550 and 650 dump truck (1 each). When it's time to replace the smaller ones, Ram will have my business. The 650 already has a Cummins/Allison combination and will run forever in my fleet. Cummins will power all my trucks moving forward.

 

[dundonrl]

I drove Fords for 15 years and never had a frame issue. Granted I was not doing any rock crawling but those trucks were always loaded at or slightly above their GVWR and also did a lot of towing. Not one of them had a frame problem.

Ever seen the frame twist on a class 8 truck? They make the ford look pretty solid.

these are 70's pickups, but my dad's 76 Power Wagon and my Uncle's 78 Highboy.. both 3/4 ton pickups, dad's was the club cab, and my uncles was a regular cab. We parked them both on the same little hill, (drivers wheel about 8 to 10" higher than the rest of them) and it tweaked the frame on the highboy so much we had to exit through the drivers door..

 

[cpaine]

Ha, nope, the Ford radiators fail because the radiators are a defective design. The frame has nothing to do with it.

I have the "weaker" c-channel on my '06 with over 225,000 miles on it, original plastic Ford radiator, no leaks, cracks or repairs. My truck has had the roughest abuse you can throw at pickups also, everyday bouncing, flexin', twisting down a f'd dirt road. My truck has been through terrain at least once, that makes this test look cute.

The Ram/GM frame test is just another BS manufacturer ad, just like Ford did with the Tundra and Silver Creek spot.

Proof's in the pudding, not dumb ads that create unrealistic scenarios. I've seen Ford trucks with 200, 300, 400, 500, 600,000 + miles on 'em and their "weak" c-channel frames.:grin2:

Your saying that this test is BS? How could it be, it is a simple frame stress test and the results are visible to the naked eye.... Radiators aside, One truck is obviously superior to the other as far as this FRAME test is concerned.

Are you going to be "that guy" who is just here to debate in favor of the other side regardless of the topic?

 

[DDRamFan]

I have seen a similar video before but with a Chevy in the twisted mix. The Chevy had the worst flex as you couldn't open the doors let alone the tail gate. (Don't remember the model year though)
However, it's basically a difference in engineering!!!
More flex in the frame will have a somewhat better ride, going beyond what the suspension absorbs.
Allowing some flex will help avoid stress cracks or fractures that "could" possibly occur on a frame that is to stiff. Not saying this will happen to our Rams here either. Just saying!

I'm NOT and engineer, but I know a bunch of them and have to work with them daily as I have been building and working on large twin isle Boeing airplanes for 10 years now.
Airplane fuselages and especially wings, MUST flex. this does not mean they are not strong. A single Boeing 777 wing weighs about 43K LBS and caries about 93K+ LBS of fuel. That's 15,500 gallons in each wing. From fully fueled on ground, to in air the wing tip has 14 vertical feet of flex!

Flex is not necessarily a bad thing.
Unless you can't open your doors or tailgate.

 

[DodgeMech]

i can attest to this being true...and it makes it kinda hard to lift the bastards on a 2 post rack...get say the left front corner a lil bit lower than the rf corner, then the right rear don't touch your lift pad at all...everything has to be perfect to lift these things right, cuz there's NO flex in that frame haha

also, while the truck is on a rack, you can put a pogo stick(telescopic jack stand) under the right rear corner to lift it, and you lift the entire rear of the truck...it's interesting to say the least

 

[Mmecsics]

There are tons of superdutys on the road, they twist, but they also last. I can for sure tell you that the 08-10 trucks suffered from lots, and lots of radiator failures. I can for sure tell you that the way they are mounted and any twist at all is what attributes to there failure. Bad design the way they are mounted.

 

[DSLTRK]

Your saying that this test is BS? How could it be, it is a simple frame stress test and the results are visible to the naked eye.... Radiators aside, One truck is obviously superior to the other as far as this FRAME test is concerned.

Are you going to be "that guy" who is just here to debate in favor of the other side regardless of the topic?

No, the test is BS because neither frame is superior, and it's put on by a manufacturer. :wink2: If the test was about handling characteristics or something that really mattered, then I'd bite. If you want to test for traction, then the Ram leaves something to be desired. Reverse psychology, baby.

Flex is not always a good thing, and neither is rigid. Rigid frames tend to have more cyclic vibration problems then c-channel, and vice versa, c-channel frames tend to have freeway, low frequency oscillations. Rust and up-fitting is also an issue with boxed frames. Repair is also an issue with boxed frames. Boxed frames are better for handling. In 2017 it wont really matter 'cause Ford jumped on the boxed frame bandwagon.

There are tons of superdutys on the road, they twist, but they also last. I can for sure tell you that the 08-10 trucks suffered from lots, and lots of radiator failures. I can for sure tell you that the way they are mounted and any twist at all is what attributes to there failure. Bad design the way they are mounted.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. The problem is poor design of the radiator and mounts.:blues:

 

[Kaboom]

The fords have all sorts of issues but the chassis/frame is not one of them in my experience with many ford trucks. C channel is really nice for unfitting, too.

 

[Random2k]

Ha, nope, the Ford radiators fail because the radiators are a defective design. The frame has nothing to do with it.

I have the "weaker" c-channel on my '06 with over 225,000 miles on it, original plastic Ford radiator, no leaks, cracks or repairs. My truck has had the roughest abuse you can throw at pickups also, everyday bouncing, flexin', twisting down a f'd dirt road. My truck has been through terrain at least once, that makes this test look cute.

The Ram/GM frame test is just another BS manufacturer ad, just like Ford did with the Tundra and Silver Creek spot.

Proof's in the pudding, not dumb ads that create unrealistic scenarios. I've seen Ford trucks with 200, 300, 400, 500, 600,000 + miles on 'em and their "weak" c-channel frames.:grin2:

Read this post then come back here an apologize. The guy posting it is a Ford tech and has first hand experience with the problem. Make sure you pay very close attention to post #26. (that's a number sign, not a hashtag)

ALARMING AMOUNT OF RADIATOR BLOWOUTS - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com

After you're done reading that one, you can spend a little time perusing the Ford 6.7 page to look at the rest of the radiator failures that have been discussed. A majority of which Ford are not covering under warranty.

 

[Danderson]

I'll take the stiff frame and compliant frame.
I believe Sage Carli noted in his blog that the Superduty's have quite a bit of frame flex.

 

[kleinbus]

From engineering standpoint, the fundamental issue is the load carrying capability.

Stiff frame resisting longitudinal torsion: Reduced twist between cab and bed. Poor articulation thus suspension has to be soft to reduce the wheel lift resulting lower load carrying capacity.

Frame allowing longitudinal twist: Allows stiffer suspension resulting higher load carrying capacity. Requires 3-point mounting for cab and bed due the longitudinal twist (4-point cab&bed mounting is guaranteed to fail).

This is the very reason why Unimog has frame designed for longitudinal flex and coiled suspension and cab & bed with 3-point mounting to allow maximum off-road articulation while having reasonable load carrying capacity.



On the other hand, as an extreme example, longitudinal torsion stiff frame without rear suspension is used on 4x4 Terminal Tractors carrying 70,000 lbs (32 Metric tons) on rear axle and due the loads, these units use forklift tires...

 

[DSLTRK]

Read this post then come back here an apologize. The guy posting it is a Ford tech and has first hand experience with the problem. Make sure you pay very close attention to post #26. (that's a number sign, not a hashtag)

ALARMING AMOUNT OF RADIATOR BLOWOUTS - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com

After you're done reading that one, you can spend a little time perusing the Ford 6.7 page to look at the rest of the radiator failures that have been discussed. A majority of which Ford are not covering under warranty.

So you're saying the Ford radiators are defective? Isn't that what I posted before in this thread? I'm saying the C-channel frame has nothing to do with radiator failures, Ford has a defective Radiator design.:wink2:

 

[DSLTRK]

From engineering standpoint, the fundamental issue is the load carrying capability.

Stiff frame resisting longitudinal torsion: Reduced twist between cab and bed. Poor articulation thus suspension has to be soft to reduce the wheel lift resulting lower load carrying capacity.

Frame allowing longitudinal twist: Allows stiffer suspension resulting higher load carrying capacity. Requires 3-point mounting for cab and bed due the longitudinal twist (4-point cab&bed mounting is guaranteed to fail).

This is the very reason why Unimog has frame designed for longitudinal flex and coiled suspension and cab & bed with 3-point mounting to allow maximum off-road articulation while having reasonable load carrying capacity.

It's clear to me you have extensive knowledge in vehicle design and application. Thanks for your input.

 

[Random2k]

So you're saying the Ford radiators are defective? Isn't that what I posted before in this thread? I'm saying the C-channel frame has nothing to do with radiator failures, Ford has a defective Radiator design.:wink2:

Did you really read the thread? Did you really read post 26?

Ford doesn't have a radiator problem. They have a frame and radiator mount problem. Things were fine until they changed the radiator mounts and now all that flex gets transferred through the radiator as well leading to the cracks.

I know you're doing your best fan boy defense for Ford on this forum but when you have a lot of TDS members complaining about their own trucks on their own "speak no evil" forum, you know there are problems.

Someday you will realize that nobody builds a perfect product. Not even Ram :surprise:

The sooner you realize that and can come to grips with it, the better off your life will be. Just imagine how much more free time you would have if you didn't have to monitor this forum just to defend Ford.

 

[DSLTRK]

So you're saying the Ford radiators are defective? Isn't that what I posted before in this thread? I'm saying the C-channel frame has nothing to do with radiator failures, Ford has a defective Radiator design.

Did you really read the thread? Did you really read post 26?

Ford doesn't have a radiator problem. They have a frame and radiator mount problem. Things were fine until they changed the radiator mounts and now all that flex gets transferred through the radiator as well leading to the cracks.

I know you're doing your best fan boy defense for Ford on this forum but when you have a lot of TDS members complaining about their own trucks on their own "speak no evil" forum, you know there are problems.

Someday you will realize that nobody builds a perfect product. Not even Ram

The sooner you realize that and can come to grips with it, the better off your life will be. Just imagine how much more free time you would have if you didn't have to monitor this forum just to defend Ford.

The key words are "radiator" and "mount".

I can guarantee the frame under my truck is more compliant than the newer sd. Yet these trucks had no rad failures. It's Ford's radiator design or mount is not fit for purpose. I've seen how they fit- very rigid with hard rubber bottom mounts whereas the 06 is almost loose fitting.

 

[djkrage]

No, the test is BS because neither frame is superior, and it's put on by a manufacturer. :wink2: If the test was about handling characteristics or something that really mattered, then I'd bite. If you want to test for traction, then the Ram leaves something to be desired. Reverse psychology, baby.

Flex is not always a good thing, and neither is rigid. Rigid frames tend to have more cyclic vibration problems then c-channel, and vice versa, c-channel frames tend to have freeway, low frequency oscillations. Rust and up-fitting is also an issue with boxed frames. Repair is also an issue with boxed frames. Boxed frames are better for handling. In 2017 it wont really matter 'cause Ford jumped on the boxed frame bandwagon.



Ding ding ding, we have a winner. The problem is poor design of the radiator and mounts.:blues:

If the old frame design is fine why you suppose Ford is moving to a boxed frame design? To keep up with the competition or because its better? In making the move would it not add more weight to the frame?

Could it possibly be that they are correcting the mistake of too much flex...?

 

[Random2k]

The key words are "radiator" and "mount".

I can guarantee the frame under my truck is more compliant than the newer sd. Yet these trucks had no rad failures. It's Ford's radiator design or mount is not fit for purpose. I've seen how they fit- very rigid with hard rubber bottom mounts whereas the 06 is almost loose fitting.

The radiator and mount are fine by themselves. Couple them with the wet spaghetti frame and you have a host of problems.

Before the radiator issue, there was the 40-45 mph bed hop problem. My 2002 F-350 was so bad that my wife refused to ride in the truck and my kids would get car sick from it. Ford tried to cure it on the 450's by bolting in a large rubber brace to absorb the harmonics but it didn't work. Engineers on that site have been trying to fabricate cross members and other bracing to control the frame bouncing but nothing has worked so far.

Here's a good place for you to start reading: http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f152/rear-end-bounces-40-45-mph-269630/

 

[GSM24]

Here's a good place to start reading.

ALARMING AMOUNT OF RADIATOR BLOWOUTS - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com

The first few pages of that forum are full of radiator failures.

I had my 6.4L F350 and never heard of this. Like I said, I liked the truck but it was plagued with emissions problems. I'm so glad I bought my signature truck. I love to go out in the desert and dry camp with my trailer or I go to Moab and dry camp with my Springbar tent in the desert by Klondike Bluffs trailhead. My truck always delivers, has gotten me out of snow and mud, and is the best and most reliable truck I've ever had.

Thanks guys for the learning experience about the radiator failure. Like I said in my previous post, I'm usually wrong. I've been educated again. CumminsForum is the best. That's why I joined.