[mr. ed]

Here's my story: I've noticed that the right front tire is wearing differently than the rest (wear more apparent on outside portion of tread). I figured it was time to get an alignment done, or at least have the camber/caster of that particular wheel adjusted. I took the truck to a local tire dealer who also performs alignments and had him look at it. He informed me that they could do the alignment but there was no guarantee that they wouldn't snap the original tie rod during the process (I call it the tie rod but I'm not sure that's what it is. Anyway, it's a piece that runs between the two front wheels and I believe there's a shock absorber of some sort that's part of the assembly).

He told me the newer Dodges have the beefier component but mine has the skimpier one which is prone to breakage. Since breakage of this part would lead to loss of steering control he had me quite concerned. My other concern is that I'm always wary of "add-ons" recommended by service businesses. The cost of the update kit is $489.95, installed. That, plus the cost of the alignment is something I wasn't prepared for when all I wanted was a simple camber adjustment on the one wheel.

My options are: (1) have them perform the alignment and pray they don't break that expensive part which they're not responsible for. (2) go ahead and have them install the new part as a preventive measure since the original one could break at any time. (3) wait for Dodge to come out with a recall since this appears to be a safety issue. (4) find another service business because these people are trying to make more money on a simple alignment (which I hope isn't the case).

Thanks for your thoughts and recommendations....

 

[mr. ed]

Update

Well, I got a second opinion from another nearby auto repair business. This time they jacked up the wheel where the wearing tire is and proved to me that the BALL JOINTS are bad. They had me feel the tire as another guy raised and lowered it using a crowbar. I could distinctly feel the "click" as he moved the wheel up & down. I've got an appointment with the dealer to have them replaced under warranty (I've got about 1k miles left on the warranty). From what I was told a ball joint replacement job goes for around $1,000 (ouch!).

It amazes me that the manufacturer doesn't install grease fittings. That simple, cheap procedure would potentially save truck owners thousands of $$ over the years. They told me that Ford & Chevy are having their share of problems with these components, too, but Dodge seems to be the worst. According to them they've seen the ball joints wear out in as little as 10k miles. I wonder if grease fittings can be installed? That would be a BIG improvement.

 

[johnrpi]

mr. ed,
If ya dont mind me asking, where do ya live. I manage a Tire shop that also does alignments and I have never had anyone of my 4 alignment guys snap a tie rod on any Dodge p/u. The way they checked the ball joints is actually wrong, you are supposed to jack the truck up and grab the top and bottom of the tire and shake it. If there is movement out of Chryslrs specs, then it should be replaced. No crowbar needed, thats actually the wrong way to check ball joints. The tie rod ends are under a voluntary recall through Chrysler, they actually replaced mine about 3 weeks ago.

 

[Brown_CO 67]

"The tie rod ends are under a voluntary recall through Chrysler"

Do you have anymore info on this recall?

 

[johnrpi]

No my tech in the small tiny little town I live in told me about it after he warranted the one's on my truck. Great tech.

 

[mr. ed]

mr. ed,
If ya dont mind me asking, where do ya live. I manage a Tire shop that also does alignments and I have never had anyone of my 4 alignment guys snap a tie rod on any Dodge p/u. The way they checked the ball joints is actually wrong, you are supposed to jack the truck up and grab the top and bottom of the tire and shake it. If there is movement out of Chryslrs specs, then it should be replaced. No crowbar needed, thats actually the wrong way to check ball joints. The tie rod ends are under a voluntary recall through Chrysler, they actually replaced mine about 3 weeks ago.

Thanks for the info, John. I've made an appointment for next Mon. with the local Dodge dealer (St. George, UT) to have the ball joints inspected and hopefully replaced under warranty. I was also suspicious when the service writer at that tire store used a "scare tactic" by telling me the original tie rod could break during alignment. That would have been an extra $500 in their pockets if I went for it arty018:

 

[trevorpschield]

No my tech in the small tiny little town I live in told me about it after he warranted the one's on my truck. Great tech.

I went over there John and he told me that he would not replace it for free. I guess ill have to buy one.

 

[johnrpi]

trevor,
I will have to say that sucks!!!! It sounds like it is priced cheap enough for anyone to afford. As you seen on my truck it is alot beefier. Mr. ed tell them your truck shimmies/death wobble and they should fix it for you. I will see if I can find the tsb and post it, or even the voluntary recall that I was told about.
By the way Trevor, the 40's look pretty darn good on your truck. I still say you gotta smoke em if ya got em!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[trevorpschield]

Hey John, you know i got a hypertech max energy that im not using if your interested. If you dont want the power you can load it for the milage. Oh and i trimmed another inch off the sheet metal for those tires, ill burn them off as soon as they get bald, just cant afford it right now, thanks to you! LOL If your interested though give me a call on my cell. Thanks again for the great service John.

 

[RegenerationCompleted]

Hi
Let me try to help. I’ve updated a prior post on this issue(s)

I agree that the earlier style link system is NOT going to snap during the course of an alignment, especially as new as an 07 ??? . Try another alignment shop (actually run away from that one).

True , as outlined below, early 2008 and down with stud mount at end of damper , if ANY part needs replacement within the system, the package will superceed to the updated kit (replacing ALL of the parts as indicated).

Reasons you may need replacement. 1/ Worn out tie rod ends, or damper. 2/ Death wobble. (even if you just need a damper, it supercedes to the entire kit).


Is the whole deal under recall . NO. If you are still under warranty and need parts , then you get the full monty.

Ball Joint misconception. ALL movement is bad. WRONG.

Truth. Upper ball joints allow (In/Out) movement of .060 , 60 thousandths.) Using a dial indicator.
Lower ball joints have an allowance of (Up/Down combined) of .090 or 90 thousandths.
Method= wheels hanging, with a pry bay ,
1/ pry between top of u-joint & axle , record reading,

2/ pry between bottom of u joint and axle , record readings, add together.


RECALL GENERAL INFORMATION H36 & H46


About a year ago Dodge began offering and superceeding all the steering to a single package as an assembly. This includes : Both outer tie rod ends, tie rod/drag link tubes, the inner drag link tie rod end, the pitman arm and the steering damper. This assembly would essentially upgrade 2003 to 2007 to the same configuration as found now on 2008-2009.

The major difference is the way the steering damper attaches. (PAY-ATTENTION to the following because there is ANOTHER RECALL in process (H46)and your gonna be asking a lot of questions.)

Older versions had the damper shaft end bolt(#9) directly to the drag link tube. Newer versions , in replacement parts and 2008 & up , have a bracket with 2 U bolts which clamp to the drag link tube instead.

There was some design re-considerations which ultimately resulted in some vehicles having parts that were either under rated, so to speak and/or possibly fail.

Scenario #1 H36 recall certain 2008's & 2009's.
Part 1, if the nuts were 13 mm (small ones) the Steering Damper bracket needed to be upgraded with larger U bolts & nuts. If the nuts were larger than 13 mm (wrench didn't fit,) bracket was/is ok.

Part 2, required replacement of the drag link inner tie rod end and re-center the steering wheel. (NOT an alignment!!! , because toe in is NOT disturbed!!! ).

Recall H46 is coming out in a week or so. Pertains to any one whom had the retrofit in service within the last year or so for only. 2003 to 2009 models

Part #1 , Service advisors are to check if the steering has the direct mount damper mounting. If so, no further , your done, no further is required .

Part 2 if the damper mount is the U bolt style, then the wrench check just like recall H36 (same parts are used in both recalls).

Then on to the drag link tie rod end, (as of this date 5/14/09, the procedure has been withdrawn for re-evaluation).

H46 has an inspection of the pitman arm for a date code, replace as indicated.

Ditto on steering wheel centering, no alignment is requires or specified, and no tire wear should result, (your steering might be slightly off but that does NOT necessarily mean your alignment was thrown out).

Charlie

 

[johnrpi]

Hi
Let me try to help. I’ve updated a prior post on this issue(s)


Reasons you may need replacement. 1/ Worn out tie rod ends, or damper. 2/ Death wobble. (even if you just need a damper, it supercedes to the entire kit).


Is the whole deal under recall . NO. If you are still under warranty and need parts , then you get the full monty.

Ball Joint misconception. ALL movement is bad. WRONG.

Truth. Upper ball joints allow (In/Out) movement of .060 , 60 thousandths.) Using a dial indicator.
Lower ball joints have an allowance of (Up/Down combined) of .090 or 90 thousandths.
Method= wheels hanging, with a pry bay ,
1/ pry between top of u-joint & axle , record reading,

2/ pry between bottom of u joint and axle , record readings, add together.



The major difference is the way the steering damper attaches. (PAY-ATTENTION to the following because there is ANOTHER RECALL in process (H46)and your gonna be asking a lot of questions.)

Older versions had the damper shaft end bolt(#9) directly to the drag link tube. Newer versions , in replacement parts and 2008 & up , have a bracket with 2 U bolts which clamp to the drag link tube instead.

There was some design re-considerations which ultimately resulted in some vehicles having parts that were either under rated, so to speak and/or possibly fail.

Scenario #1 H36 recall certain 2008's & 2009's.
Part 1, if the nuts were 13 mm (small ones) the Steering Damper bracket needed to be upgraded with larger U bolts & nuts. If the nuts were larger than 13 mm (wrench didn't fit,) bracket was/is ok.

Part 2, required replacement of the drag link inner tie rod end and re-center the steering wheel. (NOT an alignment!!! , because toe in is NOT disturbed!!! ).

Recall H46 is coming out in a week or so. Pertains to any one whom had the retrofit in service within the last year or so for only. 2003 to 2009 models

Part #1 , Service advisors are to check if the steering has the direct mount damper mounting. If so, no further , your done, no further is required .

Part 2 if the damper mount is the U bolt style, then the wrench check just like recall H36 (same parts are used in both recalls).

Then on to the drag link tie rod end, (as of this date 5/14/09, the procedure has been withdrawn for re-evaluation).

H46 has an inspection of the pitman arm for a date code, replace as indicated.

Ditto on steering wheel centering, no alignment is requires or specified, and no tire wear should result, (your steering might be slightly off but that does NOT necessarily mean your alignment was thrown out).

Charlie

Charlie, I agree on a few points here, but it sounds like you are reading from a service writer handbook on how to handle customer problems. No disrespect is intended, but replacement parts installed incorectly will cause toe issues=leading to a toe set alignment, ball joints are never to be checked with a pry bar from the base of the tire while it is in the air.
This leads to bad customer relations, and also lawsuits when the customer finds out they have been screwed. There are alot of shops out there that use this practice, and they have infact suffered the consequences, just ask the California B.A.R. association. Serious ball joint movement has never been good, although Chrysler has there tolerance levels, it may not always be right. Many people have had issues with Chryslers ball joints and front end parts, which has infact led to multiple lawsuits and lemon buy-backs. I am not trying to start a fight, but not everything that Chrysler says or prints in repair manuals is always correct, that is why we see so many updates or re-calls to things that have already been fixed.
Dodge trucks are notorious for ball joint issues, when ball joints are bad, because they are not greasable and they have too much play, they should be replaced. When a pitman arm has slop, or even a tie rod end, it too should also be replaced. When replaceing front end parts, it is always good practice too at least check the alignment and straighten the steering wheel to apease the consumer.
The customer is the one who pays our bills, treating them well and showing them the problems along with educating them builds better service and respect between the business and the consumer, this results in customers returning to your shop, and also sending in there friends and family because they found someone they can actually trust.

 

[RegenerationCompleted]

Hi John
Maybe you mean no disrespect, however you have either misquoted me or made references to things I did not say, as well as made some statements that are completely misleading to the readership.
I have been a Master Technician for 30 years, A Service Manager for 15 & a trade school Instructor.

1/ If you read the procedures on the recall H36 & H46, they refer to the inner drag link tie rod end replacement for a known defect on certain models. The instructions call for a steering wheel recentering. On a drag link setup, that tie rod end has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with toe in. It is for steering wheel centering only. True if replacement parts are installed incorrectly they can cause issues, But where did that come up in my post ? Other than some guy saying he cant do an alignment without breaking something ? Thats a jerk, and he should be avoided.

2/ WHERE did I say to pry the tire in the procedure? For the upper procedure it's a push pull procedure with your hands , I thought that would be obvious to the readers because you can't do that with a prybar. The lowers use a pry bar procedure between the knuckle & the u-joint (Factory Procedure), Where do you suggest?

3/ A vehicle manufacturer publishes specifications & procedures. You state that they should be discarded to make customers happy. Virtually every state in this country would fine any garage for following that idea. I have been on the investigation side of the state many times and NEVER have been cited.

Sorry if I sound like a service advisor, because I am. My customers that don't have to buy parts they don't need are happy. The state and the manufacturer are happy with the way I operate a garage (Yes , My dealer survived the cuts).
And readers here can be assured that the Information that I have given is accurate. By the way, I love a good debate. IF I am wrong about any of the above, Bring it on.
Charlie

 

[milo12]

Thanks for all the info.

Can you list the part numbers that are the latest version? I have an early 08 with the old setup. I would like to buy the parts and put them in myself.

I have also heard of an upgraded power steering. Do you have any info on that.

 

[RegenerationCompleted]

Hi
Supercession Kit #52122362AB msrp= $196.00 includes all the tie rod ends and must use new design damper
pn 52122370AA msrp $143.00 and damper hardware bolt
pn 6502473 msrp=$1.90 and damper hardware bolt nut
pn 6502835 msrp=$.25. If vehicle build date is before
March 1, 2008, it must be verified that pitman arm is
pn 68039930AA msrp= $72.45

Charlie

PS , There is nothing that I know of updates on power steering except for the recall H46 which deals with the issues I discussed above, it was released for a few days and then retracted for revisions.

 

[milo12]

:thumbsup: Thanks for the part numbers.

Here is a quote from an old thread about the power steering.

"they have a new design power steering pump out that dont use a dip stick its read off a a mark like the coolant bottle.. pretty slick and wow i dont think mine has ever steered that easy and smooth even when it was new with 265's and i have 35's now"

This is the thread

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/6-7l-non-powertrain/117854-power-steering-gearbox.html

 

[milo12]

Ooops just thread the thread again.

Someone posted this as the replacement pump.

52106835ag retail for 446.00

 

[RegenerationCompleted]

Ooops just thread the thread again.

Someone posted this as the replacement pump.

52106835ag retail for 446.00

Hi
That is a part # for a box alright,. Part numbers start life a AA at the end. As things are improved or vendors are changed, they change the suffix. AG means that has been superceeded 6 times. But that is not a tsb or a recall thing.

Charlie

 

[milo12]

Is that box part number what is currently installed on the trucks?

 

[Jeepstang]

I had my entire steering system replaced a few months ago
it switched from the Y style to a crossover style with beefier components and a new stabilizer and bolt on stabilizer bracket. By replacing this the way mine was done the alignment was also done under warranty. Toe is affected since all of the links were replaced. I told them I had death wobble and this is what they did for me.

 

[BOOOST]

I am wondering if I can get the dealer to replace my steering under warranty. I have never had death wobble, but I know I want the cross over steering, what can I do to have it replaced? Cause its a better design and they obviously knew it could use some help. I would like to get this done before my local dealer closes down.(not sure when thats happening)

Also, my steering squeals like an old Jeep when I have the wheel cranked to the locks either direction and am really cranking, like making a tight turn, in and out ofparking spaces, backing in my trailer, etc. Think its the power steering pump? or box? No leaks anywhere. The problem is, it doesn't do it all the time, so I have a feeling dealer "won't be able to duplicate customer concern"

any ideas?