I raised the full spray level on water meth to 50 psi boost to stop chatter from to much spray for boost level. Seems to have worked. Start is now at 15 psi full at 50 psi.
Ultimate VP 44 Performance Setup
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Crazy Carls piping kit here this Wednesday!!!! Exciting!!!
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From your other thread
Also worth pointing out that the drag comp fuels to 3200 rpm, then it will stop fueling via tuning and the stock ecm tune takes over. at 3200 rpm the stock tune starts pulling fuel, more aggressively as you head towards 3500 rpm, at 3500 rpm the ecm starts going into runaway protection mode and sets the fueling command to basically 0. if you try and run out RPMS to 3500-3600 rpms your power is going to fall of the face of the earth after the edge stops fueling at 3200 rpm
Here is from Edge the specs of the Drag Comp
www.edgeproducts.com
![Rectangle Font Screenshot Parallel Number]()
here is a datalog to shows what happens to the stock fueling command past 3000 rpm on the blue bars, orange bars are the quad and you can ignore that. note that the fueling commands fall off from ~3400 ( %75 of possible fueling) to ~600 ( which is about idle command) the end of the bar graph is going from 3000 rpm to 3500 rpm.
![Rectangle Font Parallel Electric blue Pattern]()
what this means is when the edge stops fueling at 3200 rpm your hp and torque will fall off fast as the fueling commands from the ecm are going to 0 rapidly. Doesn't matter how big your sticks are if the vp is not being told to fuel the injectors won't fuel.
if you want to make as high as possible in RPMS and you want to stick with the edge then you need to run a edge juice with attitude comp with level 7 hot hot unlock and it will try to fuel to ~3600. the normal edge drag just won't give you power above 3200 rpm as it is not programmed to.
www.edgeproducts.com
you won't really be seeing how the truck spools if you start your dyno run at 2k. you won't have any gauge on the compound setup vs the large single. I don't see what good a 2k start does for trying to show how well a setup spools vs another setup, IE: single vs Compounds. A lot of truck make their peak torque before 2k so if you are wanting to do comparisons it seems like your runs should start closer to 1500 rpm.
Also worth pointing out that the drag comp fuels to 3200 rpm, then it will stop fueling via tuning and the stock ecm tune takes over. at 3200 rpm the stock tune starts pulling fuel, more aggressively as you head towards 3500 rpm, at 3500 rpm the ecm starts going into runaway protection mode and sets the fueling command to basically 0. if you try and run out RPMS to 3500-3600 rpms your power is going to fall of the face of the earth after the edge stops fueling at 3200 rpm
Here is from Edge the specs of the Drag Comp
Edge 30300HOT Edge Comp Tuner - HOT
The comp is a mild to wild performance upgrade for the driver who wants adjustable power, added towing capacity, improved fuel economy, and extreme power. The Hot Comp or Drag Comp turns up the power in level 5 and fuels past 2,800 RPMs to 3,200 RPMs at a faster fuel rate than the standard Comp...
www.edgeproducts.com
here is a datalog to shows what happens to the stock fueling command past 3000 rpm on the blue bars, orange bars are the quad and you can ignore that. note that the fueling commands fall off from ~3400 ( %75 of possible fueling) to ~600 ( which is about idle command) the end of the bar graph is going from 3000 rpm to 3500 rpm.
what this means is when the edge stops fueling at 3200 rpm your hp and torque will fall off fast as the fueling commands from the ecm are going to 0 rapidly. Doesn't matter how big your sticks are if the vp is not being told to fuel the injectors won't fuel.
if you want to make as high as possible in RPMS and you want to stick with the edge then you need to run a edge juice with attitude comp with level 7 hot hot unlock and it will try to fuel to ~3600. the normal edge drag just won't give you power above 3200 rpm as it is not programmed to.
Edge 31700-3 Edge Competition Juice w/ Attitude CTS3
Take your VP44 to a whole new level with Edge's Competition Juice, more RPM's, more fueling, and an all-new CTS3 color touchscreen display. Customers asked and we delivered with Power Level 7 and fueling up to 3600 RPMs you'll gain up to 150HP! This product is ideal for those core enthusiasts...
www.edgeproducts.com
Thank you for guidance!!!! I will start run at 1500. Why does it say in the hot manual that it adds 60 hp and 100 trq after 3150 rpm????From your other thread
you won't really be seeing how the truck spools if you start your dyno run at 2k. you won't have any gauge on the compound setup vs the large single. I don't see what good a 2k start does for trying to show how well a setup spools vs another setup, IE: single vs Compounds. A lot of truck make their peak torque before 2k so if you are wanting to do comparisons it seems like your runs should start closer to 1500 rpm.
Also worth pointing out that the drag comp fuels to 3200 rpm, then it will stop fueling via tuning and the stock ecm tune takes over. at 3200 rpm the stock tune starts pulling fuel, more aggressively as you head towards 3500 rpm, at 3500 rpm the ecm starts going into runaway protection mode and sets the fueling command to basically 0. if you try and run out RPMS to 3500-3600 rpms your power is going to fall of the face of the earth after the edge stops fueling at 3200 rpm
Here is from Edge the specs of the Drag Comp
Edge 30300HOT Edge Comp Tuner - HOT
The comp is a mild to wild performance upgrade for the driver who wants adjustable power, added towing capacity, improved fuel economy, and extreme power. The Hot Comp or Drag Comp turns up the power in level 5 and fuels past 2,800 RPMs to 3,200 RPMs at a faster fuel rate than the standard Comp...
View attachment 954917
here is a datalog to shows what happens to the stock fueling command past 3000 rpm on the blue bars, orange bars are the quad and you can ignore that. note that the fueling commands fall off from ~3400 ( %75 of possible fueling) to ~600 ( which is about idle command) the end of the bar graph is going from 3000 rpm to 3500 rpm.
View attachment 954918
what this means is when the edge stops fueling at 3200 rpm your hp and torque will fall off fast as the fueling commands from the ecm are going to 0 rapidly. Doesn't matter how big your sticks are if the vp is not being told to fuel the injectors won't fuel.
if you want to make as high as possible in RPMS and you want to stick with the edge then you need to run a edge juice with attitude comp with level 7 hot hot unlock and it will try to fuel to ~3600. the normal edge drag just won't give you power above 3200 rpm as it is not programmed to.
Edge 31700-3 Edge Competition Juice w/ Attitude CTS3
Take your VP44 to a whole new level with Edge's Competition Juice, more RPM's, more fueling, and an all-new CTS3 color touchscreen display. Customers asked and we delivered with Power Level 7 and fueling up to 3600 RPMs you'll gain up to 150HP! This product is ideal for those core enthusiasts...
I'm not worried about which setup will spool better.......more so how much horsepower is capable with single.
Please answer!
I am going to have to mess with onset of WM in this scenario.
In my real world experience it seems to go to 3500 easily without power tapering off.
The issue I think we will have is trying to keep torque converter locked starting that early. It's making so much power it wants to just let go sometimes. If I get a little higher in rpm it stays locked better and that's when the mayhem really happens.
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you might call edge and ask them. "after 3150" is a pretty open statement, 3175 is after 3150 so is 5000. I think what you have in the manual is marketing and that is why the current manual says " up to 3200" For as long as I can remember the drag comp has stopped fueling at 3200 or 3200 or something like that. The numbers used to be 150 hp over stock, but that changed. That hp over stock is only useful for a stock injector truck and really should be thrown out for a modded truck . Same goes for the quad numbers or the tst number for "over stock" they are all best case with a stock injector truck. when you are talking about 500 + hp then the numbers of over stock are %100 useless and you are better off ignoring them. Point is you do not have any tuner fueling beyond 3200 rpm, this is why edge came out with the hot hot unlock and for extra money you can buy a new tuner that fuels to 3600..... kinda like DDP and the injector upgrade issue in my opinion.
Your butt dyno is lying to you when you think it pulls hard to 3500, it might rev out to 3500, but the fueling is falling off VERY fast after 3200. Dyno sheet after dyno sheet and datalog after datalog show this. Your truck is no different. VP trucks make power between 2k and 3k rpm as they approach 3k hp falls off rapidly. This is due to the physics of a rotary pump. As you spin them faster they have to work harder and harder to deliver the same MM/S worth of fuel to the injectors. as some point the pump just can't overcome the spinning force of the pump and it no longer can pump enough fuel fast enough per stroke to make the engine spin above 3500 rpm . Doesn't matter if it is a stock SO pump or a monster mike pump or whatever.
Don't expect to see power holding at 3500 rpm regardless of tuning.
Your butt dyno is lying to you when you think it pulls hard to 3500, it might rev out to 3500, but the fueling is falling off VERY fast after 3200. Dyno sheet after dyno sheet and datalog after datalog show this. Your truck is no different. VP trucks make power between 2k and 3k rpm as they approach 3k hp falls off rapidly. This is due to the physics of a rotary pump. As you spin them faster they have to work harder and harder to deliver the same MM/S worth of fuel to the injectors. as some point the pump just can't overcome the spinning force of the pump and it no longer can pump enough fuel fast enough per stroke to make the engine spin above 3500 rpm . Doesn't matter if it is a stock SO pump or a monster mike pump or whatever.
Don't expect to see power holding at 3500 rpm regardless of tuning.
Ok. Thanks.........that will help keep me from suffering dyno shock! LOL!
I am prepared to post my numbers no matter what they may be!
Also I have 2 motion cameras and mounts to capture it all. Regardless of numbers it will be fun!!!
Also i was going to start at 2000 rpm because thats what every dyno ive done started at??? Why, dont know???
$1300 for 20 more horsepower..........not going to happen. I'm perfectly happy the way it runs now! If it takes that with compounds to make 1000 then that's a different story!!!
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Kinda missed the point
again stop reading "for XX hp" that's not how it works, what you gain is the fueling from 3200 rpm to 3600 rpm. That's the important part when you are wanting to hold power beyond 3200 rpm when comparing the edge drag comp and other tuners.
However I am betting you will hit peak hp before 3k rpm so the extra rpms don't gain you anything.
again stop reading "for XX hp" that's not how it works, what you gain is the fueling from 3200 rpm to 3600 rpm. That's the important part when you are wanting to hold power beyond 3200 rpm when comparing the edge drag comp and other tuners.
However I am betting you will hit peak hp before 3k rpm so the extra rpms don't gain you anything.
i will go out on a limb and say peak horsepower will be 3200 with 40gph of water methanol spraying any residual fuel will get burned.
Did you see diesel dynamics transmissions is preparing a quote for full race VB. Said he would try and let me know tonight???
3200 rpm not 3200 horsepower LOL!
ok i get it now!!! Thanks for being patient while i wrap my head around all this. Your explanation is very thorough. Thank you!!! New Edge tuner a gimmick kinda then. Not needed unless you feel you need the extra rpms that will not get you a higher hp number possibly???
So the trick then is to get as much air and fuel into cylinders before 3000 rpm. So i am going to have to r and d my methanol setup and make sure full spray is happening before 3000 rpm. Stupid map sensor electronic decide to start spraying wm at low boost and truck start bucking and sputtering. not sure why but it shows boost 10 pounds when it is actually 0-1.
Well I adjusted Water Meth and tried some pulls from 1500 RPM and I'm sorry guys it just isn't going to happen that way. It simply will not hold. I have to hit about 40-45 mph then nice and evenly lay on pedal till it lights then hammer it and it's utter Armageddon!!!. So this dyno session will be strictly be a how much Horsepower am I making. If you think your going to see smoke I'm sorry but you are going to be disappointed. Light haze when first drop pedal then clears up and screams ! I have some tricks that a few know about. Everybody know you use fresh oil but what do you put in it???? Same goes for fuel....what do you put in it and how much. Maybe after run depending on numbers I'll reveal??? Same goes for rear axle??? Here's what I got to document event! I am simply waiting for call from shop when they have opening. Told him ill drop work and be there!
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what doesn't hold, your trans?
I don't follow, why do you have to pedal until it lights?
Just enough even steady pressure on pedal till I reach the level it will hold. If I mash pedal down low it lets go and slips bad. Yes trans doesn't hold.
When on dyno I'll try but I may not be able to make low rpm run work.
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hopefully the dyno reads rpms from the crank rather than calculating based on wheel speed / tire size / and ratios.
A slipping trans can really skew the numbers depending on how it is reading RPMS.
I'd hold off until you fix your trans. if you are blowing through the converter / trans and rpms are being calc'd from wheel speed you will end up showing that the truck makes significantly more power at low rpms because the dyno will show like 1500 rpms based on wheel speed, but the engine will actually be turning 2400 rpm.
A slipping trans can really skew the numbers depending on how it is reading RPMS.
I'd hold off until you fix your trans. if you are blowing through the converter / trans and rpms are being calc'd from wheel speed you will end up showing that the truck makes significantly more power at low rpms because the dyno will show like 1500 rpms based on wheel speed, but the engine will actually be turning 2400 rpm.
Problem is once trans is out compounds are going on also and injector change. This is my only chance to see hp single is putting out. It holds just fine just not below say 1800-2000 rpm.
I think we will get accurate readings. This is a hot rod shop and they dyno hundreds of high hp cars.
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