[steve05ram360]

Update... after multiple days commuting to work, boost is up on the flats by approx 0.5 psi from what I see on the Torque app. Fill up today and am expecting 21's for mpg's. Had a high wind day and mild temps 35-65*

 

[steve05ram360]

Random thoughts... considering making my own version of a TAG to play with, maybe a 9 or 16 zone version so the flow is not impeded so much.

 

[VADERPOWER]

So , Steve, you probably already attempted this, but, have you tried to install the turning vanes in the AFE torque tube? It seems you could have the best of both worlds, increased flow & directional efficiency.

 

[steve05ram360]

So , Steve, you probably already attempted this, but, have you tried to install the turning vanes in the AFE torque tube? It seems you could have the best of both worlds, increased flow & directional efficiency.

No, have not. What I'd like to do is get my hands on a 2nd intake tube that has the vanes in it and swap the top part out for one that has the vanes... both ends would have the vanes.

The TAG tank came in at 21.0 mpg with the modified turbo laggy tune. Going to pop in the other air box tube I have and run that next week. Recall I mentioned the oem setup right off the bad performed better than the TAG setup. It had more "spunk" to it. Both TAG & OEM setups will have the not so cheap air box mod V4.1 enabled.

 

[VADERPOWER]

Well my friend, I'm going to attempt it tomorrow 🙏 I picked up a AFE TT. I really like the look of it and hate the Fugly stocker tube!! If all goes well, ( the vanes actually fit the AFE with reasonable means of securing) I will post up pics ✌

 

[steve05ram360]

Well my friend, I'm going to attempt it tomorrow 🙏 I picked up a AFE TT. I really like the look of it and hate the Fugly stocker tube!! If all goes well, ( the vanes actually fit the AFE with reasonable means of securing) I will post up pics ✌

Awesome!! Yeah post pics for sure. If i do the custom tag i will definitely post it here.

When you have the vanes out, can you first see if they would fit in the upper tube? That is a more viable option over the dual lower sections, the bottom one is not an accordian style piece and it may not reach the air box if used in the upper position

 

[VADERPOWER]

Absolutely!! I'm going to yank them out in the morning, then I will check the fit!!! ✌

 

[VADERPOWER]

So, with the OEM tube sitting plum, you can see how the vanes are oriented.

Here you can see, I slipped the vanes up inside the upper part of the OEM tube, perfect fit! And yes, you can orient them anyway you want. I believe the muffler canister WILL hold the vanes in place tightly!! So you can have vanes on both ends if you want!! Btw, I tried to slip them in the upper tube on the air box side and no go, but, man! They fit like factory on the muffler side. Also, and sadly, the vanes do not fit in the AFE TT. They are to big in diameter by a fair amount. So that bumms me out a little, but I'm installing it anyway. ✌

Looking in from the air box side 👍

 

[steve05ram360]

Thanks vader...

If the vanes are still sitting on the bench can you snap a pic of it by itself?

When inserted in the upper hose, did it sit in the bend nicely or do you think there might be an obstruction? It would only work if it fits like it does that lower elbow.

 

[VADERPOWER]

It sits perfect in the upper tube, identical as the lower tube, imo. It's just the upper tube doesn't have the built-in stops the lower tube has. But it's pinned in by the "+" center section of the muffler.

 

[steve05ram360]

Perfect! Thanks!!

 

[Alcharger]

It will be interesting to see if you can measure any gain by putting turning vanes in the upper elbow, if I got that right.

The silencer/pulse damping tube slows the velocity and has straighening vanes. The turning vanes in the second elbow apear to load the turbo wheel evenly.

The Industrial Ventalation work we normally put turning vanes to load the wheel of the blower when we had to elbow right into the blower, like our turbos. We infrequently put turning vanes up stream of the blower if the ductwork was vibrating or to reduce noise.

We also used Inlet Vortex Dampers, like the VGTs on the 6.7s. There was a measurable gain to spin the air right before loading the wheel of the blower and have precise control of the air flow.

 

[steve05ram360]

It will be interesting to see if you can measure any gain by putting turning vanes in the upper elbow, if I got that right.

The silencer/pulse damping tube slows the velocity and has straighening vanes. The turning vanes in the second elbow apear to load the turbo wheel evenly.

The Industrial Ventalation work we normally put turning vanes to load the wheel of the blower when we had to elbow right into the blower, like our turbos. We infrequently put turning vanes up stream of the blower if the ductwork was vibrating or to reduce noise.

We also used Inlet Vortex Dampers, like the VGTs on the 6.7s. There was a measurable gain to spin the air right before loading the wheel of the blower and have precise control of the air flow.

Do you know if the high pressure zone at the outer bend in the upper hose acts as a restriction based on your experience in the ventalation work?

I think it does which is the motivation for trying it in the upper hose.

 

[Alcharger]

Do you know if the high pressure zone at the outer bend in the upper hose acts as a restriction based on your experience in the ventalation work?

I think it does which is the motivation for trying it in the upper hose.

Here is the long winded answer....

All elbows have pressure loss. Duct designers had a list of "factors" to estimate pressure loss in a system. For corragated hose we doubled the pressure loss over a smooth elbow. Today, we have software that use the factors we had back with sliderules.

The air exiting the 1st, corregated, 90 is the most tubulent. The air then slows through the silencer and provides more volume to lesson the pulses of an turbo and engine. This tube straightening vanes smooth out the turbulance.

IF the duct is the same diameter, we use 6 duct diameters, 3" x 6 = 18" to allow the air to straighten before entering the blower. In our case, we have straighening vanes and a larger diameter duct/tube. I suspect the air flowing almost ideal before it enters the last elbow with turning vanes.

ADD to the mix, the turbo is pulsing, each blade pulses. The engine is pulsing, each intake cycle an inrush of air or pulse. AND the volume of air is changing constantly as we speed up, slow down, build boost and many other factors.

We don't see turning vanes in many applications because of the expense and added pressure drop.

Hey, you might find that turning vanes help our intake. You have the parts. We won't know until you run the test!

To protect workers in industriy, the government funded basic research and published information we us to design ventalation systems. These principles applyt to our CTDs.

Here is a link.

OSHA Technical Manual (OTM) - Section III: Chapter 3 | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

And one more if the first one didn't put you to sleep.

Air Ducts - Friction Loss Diagram

 

[steve05ram360]

IDK if I stated this or not but... on the flats going to work, the TAG has boost at 3.8~4.1 vs 3.3~3.5 for the OEM tube w/vanes.

The OEM tube w/vanes is definitely a better drive. I suspect the users that claimed better mpg's were cool hose users that were already down because of the lack of the vanes. I saw this with the torque tube going to the oem tube with vanes. Noticeable jump in bottom end part throttle torque with the vanes. The cool hose is very similar to the afe torque tube.

 

[steve05ram360]

MPG comparison...

Notes, on last tank w/o TAG, heavy winds 1 day + rain on each day, not 100% work commute miles and new wheel bearings went in on front axle. Ambient temps for both tanks 40-60*, IATs 60-85*.

OEM tube with turning vanes definitely drives better and will stay in place for now. TAG setup feels like the intake is choked down too much for me. Compared to the Torque Tube, mpg's are definitely better. I think those that saw an mpg improvement had the cool hose in place, and some even had the toilet bowl flange mod on the bottom of the stock air box. It would make total sense to me that they would see an mpg bump.

From a driver stand point though, that OEM with the turning vanes + the V4.1 air box mod is the way to go.

 

[steve05ram360]

Do-over for both setups coming... bearings are "loose" now and full coasting is restored. The comparison is not a good one for the 2 setups tested with the bearing swap in between.

 

[VADERPOWER]

Steve, are you still planning on installing the vanes on both ends of the stock tube? As for me, I'm loving my setup right now! Made a little trip down to our friends house in Florence, from my place in Damascus. 189miles, mostly highway down I-5, but back roads also, the fuel gauge when I rolled in last night was just off the peg, but still on the full line. I should have fueled up to check mileage but we were starving and had pizza and tequila waiting, lol. ✌

 

[steve05ram360]

Yes on the vanes.... Need to get a 2nd air box setup

189 mi just off full, wow should fill up asap & check. On my truck that would be close to a 25 mpg tank. My one 25 mog tank had 200 miles with the needle just coming off the full mark.

 

[VADERPOWER]

Yes! And believe it or not, that was with a steady 10+ mph head wind as the storm's are coming right out of the south/west. Also, running a steady 65 mph down I-5. ( As slow mover has posted, 62 or even 60 is better) I posted in the 23/25 mph thread as well. I'm greedy! Want More mpgs!! In That, I'm willing to contribute Steve!! If you want, you can PM me an address, and I will happily send you my turning vanes from my factory tube! So you can test them.
No worries either way ✌