[steve05ram360]

I long time member here (Thanks @dieselenthusiast )!!! thought of me when he sold his truck and pulled this rare piece out. Got it delivered Friday and am looking forward to seeing how it behaves vs the stock turning vanes on the stock intake tube. I have to disclose though that my truck needs to be retuned, the throttle is pretty sensitive now in its current state and I have to pay attention to the rpms while using the foot on the hiway. All too often speeds creep up with the current setup. Minimally I need to retune the throttle map in the tune, but I am thinking I am going to go back to the previous tune and tune it again from there as I'm getting more gear rollover noise then I'd like... (remember I have the G56 so I get to feel everything the motor does... for the most part)

These TAGs are obsolete, you cant buy them anymore so if someone wants one the best one could hope for is one sold in the classifieds. The screen is available though for about $50 bux, would need to fab up a housing if really motivated. These are said to loose hp/tq at the peaks on the dyno, but what is often missed by some is what is happening under the peaks at part throttle. It is hard to quantify that but, I think the best way to look at it is with the 12 mi hiway run I do while tuning. It is rolling hills with some flat spots. The objective would be to look at boost, calc-load, fuel demand etc. The problem is however I have to go out in the middle of the night when traffic has died down in order to get clean drives to collect data. That part sucks as I get up for work every day at 0345 ish.

Anyways, if interested follow along and I will post up info as I get it. 1st drive probably wont be for a week or more though, out of town for a week on business.

All the testing I will do will be on the current tune and I am hoping to get it all done over the Christmas break, last week of December. There is a slim chance I can get to this next weekend but I am not holding my breath. Learned long ago that usually when that happens I wake up with a bump on the head. <lol>


test plan:
1) OEM tube, -vanes
2) OEM tube, +TAG
3) OEM tube, +vanes
4) OEM tube, +vanes, +TAG

Execution order = #3, #1, #2, #4

Execution route = ~12 mi out & back, 2 separate datalogs, on for ea direction. 8 logs total, 2 directions

Data = RP, CT, IAT, MM3 actual, AIT, boost, calc load

Edit: results found here...
TAG Test Results

 

[BFD]

The honeycomb looks too tight to me. We had Pharma drying machines that require cfm control, so I installed honeycombs/pitot tubes connected to Magnahelics and the honeycombs were ~1/2".
I don't doubt that the gains would be lost, due to restriction, on that turbo thing.
I turned a 3" long velocity stack to fit into the compressor housing on my 97, out of UHMW, and I was getting strong boost at 1200 rpm (the low end tq. was incredible) but the turbo barked terribly, when the pulling got hard. I needed a different turbo to work with that stack, but I was definitely on to something... no restriction and it greatly reduced turbulence. I don't have access to a machine shop, anymore, DARN.

FLASH... cones are super easy to layout and build out of sheet metal. That will be a spring project!

 

[beermoney]

so if i understand this correctly its only job is to create a more laminar flow and remove turbulence for a more efficient ingestion of air?
if theres a good market for these it wouldnt be that hard to make like if i could get a dozen people or more on board to order them they could probably be made affordable.

 

[steve05ram360]

so if i understand this correctly its only job is to create a more laminar flow and remove turbulence for a more efficient ingestion of air?
if theres a good market for these it wouldnt be that hard to make like if i could get a dozen people or more on board to order them they could probably be made affordable.

Yes it is to set the inlet flow to the compressor so it is laminar. This product went thru its life cycle back in the early 2000's and it was not a big enough hit to continue production. It would be my preference to have larger openings but that is not an option from what I have seen. I think, it is 1/8" as is and that seems to be what the aftermarket screens are set to. If designing from scratch I'd have done 1/4" and tested it.

All of the research I did gave me a 50/50ish yea/nea on it so to have the opportunity to play with one myself could not be passed up.

 

[steve05ram360]

The honeycomb looks too tight to me. We had Pharma drying machines that require cfm control, so I installed honeycombs/pitot tubes connected to Magnahelics and the honeycombs were ~1/2".
I don't doubt that the gains would be lost, due to restriction, on that turbo thing.
I turned a 3" long velocity stack to fit into the compressor housing on my 97, out of UHMW, and I was getting strong boost at 1200 rpm (the low end tq. was incredible) but the turbo barked terribly, when the pulling got hard. I needed a different turbo to work with that stack, but I was definitely on to something... no restriction and it greatly reduced turbulence. I don't have access to a machine shop, anymore, DARN.

FLASH... cones are super easy to layout and build out of sheet metal. That will be a spring project!

Any pics of the work that you did? I'd be interested to see that.

ON the bark, the only time I ever had bark was when I ran the AFE stage 2 CAI with the 6" flanged filter. I have not had anything close to that with the current setup (or torque tube setup).

 

[BFD]

No, that piece went with the truck, 15 years ago.

 

[kelaog]

Yes it is to set the inlet flow to the compressor so it is laminar. This product went thru its life cycle back in the early 2000's and it was not a big enough hit to continue production. It would be my preference to have larger openings but that is not an option from what I have seen. I think, it is 1/8" as is and that seems to be what the aftermarket screens are set to. If designing from scratch I'd have done 1/4" and tested it.

All of the research I did gave me a 50/50ish yea/nea on it so to have the opportunity to play with one myself could not be passed up.

Kinda, straightening vanes are used to make the flow fully developed where a long length of straight pipe to make that happen is impractical. This is important at the inlets of compressors, pumps and for flow measurement. Laminar or turbulant isn't so important. You can't really make turbulant flow laminar and laminar flow turbulant without increasing/reducing velocities or changing the pipe diameter. More than likely the flow into your turbo is turbulent.

developing flow vs laminar flow - Google Search

The developed length is a function of the pipe diameter and reynolds number. Hence if you make the pipe very small then you get a fully developed profile in a short distance. If you look at the design of a straightening vane it is essentially many many small pipes. The outlet of which recombines a whole bunch of developed flows into one big developed/uniform flow profile or one that will become fully developed in a short length of straight pipe.

 

[steve05ram360]

There is one thing not mentioned though with the TAG, the output is tapered which is going to accelerate flow into the wheel. I have not matched this up yet to the spare silencer ring I have to see how it should fit in relation to the comp wheel. I am hoping the ring is the seat for where the tapered end meets the turbo.

FWIW, when I put this turbo in there was no silencer ring (I view this as smothing out the flow into the compressor wheel, reducing turbulence) on it. I added one to experiment with on the hiway runs I was doing in the middle of winter and the change was a noticeable bump in the SOTP feel with the ring. This was with the AFE torque tube w/o any flow straightener in the tube output. Fast forward approx 3 months back I was prodded into putting back in the OEM tube with the flow straighteners and again felt a good bump that was noticeable with the SOTP feel. Since that install I have had 2 tanks that were 23.3 mpg or better, and this is presumably on the winter diesel. That exceeds the best previous winter tank of 22.1 (?) mpg that I'd had back in 2018 or 2019 (i forget which year). The point is, the flow straighteners helped... (ring & intake tube)... all with 483k on the engine as of this week.

 

[kelaog]

There is one thing not mentioned though with the TAG, the output is tapered which is going to accelerate flow into the wheel. I have not matched this up yet to the spare silencer ring I have to see how it should fit in relation to the comp wheel. I am hoping the ring is the seat for where the tapered end meets the turbo.

FWIW, when I put this turbo in there was no silencer ring (I view this as smothing out the flow into the compressor wheel, reducing turbulence) on it. I added one to experiment with on the hiway runs I was doing in the middle of winter and the change was a noticeable bump in the SOTP feel with the ring. This was with the AFE torque tube w/o any flow straightener in the tube output. Fast forward approx 3 months back I was prodded into putting back in the OEM tube with the flow straighteners and again felt a good bump that was noticeable with the SOTP feel. Since that install I have had 2 tanks that were 23.3 mpg or better, and this is presumably on the winter diesel. That exceeds the best previous winter tank of 22.1 (?) mpg that I'd had back in 2018 or 2019 (i forget which year). The point is, the flow straighteners helped... (ring & intake tube)... all with 483k on the engine as of this week.

Very cool! thanks for sharing.

On the 6.7L there is a silencer which looks like a really crude crappy flow conditioner. Some people have tried removing it and found increased EGT's and high fuel consumption. I'd be curious if you saw a reduction in EGT's as well. More than likely what is happening is that the efficiency gained from better distribution across the inlet exceeds the pressure drop caused by the flow straightener. There might be a market then for producing these for the 6.7

 

[steve05ram360]

if you could build a setup from the 5.9 inlet hose you should have better flow into the comp wheel. The 5.9 center section has a plastic cross setup the length of it which will keep the flow out of it and into the upper part of the turning vanes "less" turbulent which helps that flow into the comp wheel area.

I think the TAG will further straighten it out and make it more efficient and may provide another small mpg bump.

In case you missed it, my tune is no where near dialed in and I need to work on it, yet still got that 23 mpg tank. When I work on the TAG, the plan is to test using the current tune as is since I have lots of seat time with it. Some have reported a 1 mpg bump, I'm not that optimistic... time will tell.

 

[steve05ram360]

adding pic of the center section of the 5.9 intake tube... the dimples keep flow turbulent and attached to the center section... the key there is the flow remains attached to the center section and the outflow benefits from it.

 

[Gone2Farr]

I have one of these on both my trucks 98 12v and 99 24v. Both trucks are automatics. The only thing I have notices over the years I have these installed is that off the line the turbo spools up faster. As for milage both trucks range around 19-21 mpg on the highway and 14-16 towing and around town. I installed mine in 1999 so I have quite a few miles on them. Mine are the first gen style of this.

 

[steve05ram360]

Thanks for the input!

 

[steve05ram360]

Updated post #1 with test plan...

 

[steve05ram360]

Updated post #1 with TAG + Silence ring for reference. I see how this would reduce the turbulence in front of the compressor wheel, the trailing edge of the TAG fits into the silencer ring and exits at the same distance as the ring.

 

[cattlepuncher]

To my knowledge the holes in the stock 3rd gen intake are for noise attenuation rather than any air flow gains. If the OEM wanted better air, there are a lot easier ways to get it.

Many of our military aircraft turboshaft engines (Blackhawk, Apache, seahawk, Huey, cobra) all use engines which have stationary guide vanes that angle intake air to strike the first compressor stage in the most advantageous way. I think this would be more advantageous than a screen.

 

[steve05ram360]

To my knowledge the holes in the stock 3rd gen intake are for noise attenuation rather than any air flow gains. If the OEM wanted better air, there are a lot easier ways to get it.

Many of our military aircraft turboshaft engines (Blackhawk, Apache, seahawk, Huey, cobra) all use engines which have stationary guide vanes that angle intake air to strike the first compressor stage in the most advantageous way. I think this would be more advantageous than a screen.

What holes in the stock intake? The only one I'm aware of is the inlet at the air box. The later year 5.9s have turning vanes in the stock intake tube just prior to the compressor. the flow however would still be turbulent at the exit, just not as bad as with the vanes.

It is going to be interesting to see if there is any performance change with the 64mm HE351 that I have in there. Mentioned elsewhere on CF was the bump in power I noticed at part throttle after putting back in the silencer ring once the 64mm turbo was installed.

I think a better, less restrictive version of this would be a checker board version instead of the honeycomb insert that is in there. 15~20 flow straightener sections should be enough... (I think...)

 

[BFD]

Steam turbines use vanes between the stages, but those are called diaphragms.

 

[SpidRacer]

What holes in the stock intake?

I speculate @cattlepuncher may have been referring to what you call "dimples"...

 

[steve05ram360]

Working on this today... Retuning truck to give a more sluggish turbo response on the bottom end. The idea is to see if i can get data logs that show a change, if any on the 12 mi tuning route.

Shooting to collect data later in the week, weather and traffic permitting ..