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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A little less than a year ago a had my transmission completely rebuilt by the most reputable shop I could find here in Panama City. It was roughly 6k.

After rebuild it was stacking the 2/3 shift. It would come out of first and either barely touch 2nd gear or not hit it at all and go straight into 3rd. Occasionally, it would shift flawless. It definitely seems like tempature is a factor. Since winter has got here, ive noticed some new symptoms. If I dont let it warm up in the morning, even on a very mild day (40 degrees) if I don't let it warm up in the morning it will downshift harshly from 3 to 1 when I get to stop sign at end of the road, also it will never seem to even touch 2nd when the tranny is still cold. It will go straight from 3rd and at about 10mph during braking, it will bang down into first.


I took it back to the transmission shop and he worked on it for a couple months, trying different things to located problem. Builder seems to really think its an electrical issue. He replaced my pcm with one sourced from local dealer, he replaced abs module, re wired the abs/wheel speed sensors to each wheel. He did everything he possibly could think of including calling in second opinions and taking it to the dealership as well. He also claims he took my transmission out of my truck and put it in another truck and it shifted fine. I have no reason not to believe him, because after all was said and done and he couldn't figure out what was causing it, he refunded my money. Every last dime of it. I felt horrible for the guy, he poured countless hours into trying to figure out the problem but he just couldn't do it.

My next move was to call suncoast since they are a couple hours away and see if they can look at it. They refer me to the only shop in the area that is approved to install suncoast transmissions under their warranty or whatever. Tony Biggots transmission in ft. walton. He said he hooked gauges/scanner up and took it out and noticed that it was "leaking pressure". Thats all he said, and that I needed to put an 8.5k suncoast transmission in it. Now while that may be the case, I was looking for more of a why. Not that im eager to have it rebuilt again, but I will if necessary, but I would like to know why. As I was looking over the factory pressure test procedure it seems that for each test that is ran there is a corresponding part of the transmission that is being tested. Its my understanding that if its not holding pressure during a specific test, it should point you to a specific area the problem may be coming from. Am I wrong about that? It just seemed like he was very quick to tell me I needed an 8k transmission from suncoast and when I asked him some questions about what could be causing it to not hold pressure he didn't seem the least bit interested in determining what cause was, just wanted to put a suncoast unit in the truck.

Im taking my truck for another shop in a different area that ive heard really good things about. Ive told them the background on it and they say their willing to bring it in and run some test and see if they can get an idea of whats going on.

So finally the question im here for, what would yall do in this situation? just say screw it and buy a suncoast? although transmission wont matter if the problem is not internal. which the previous builder seems to think its not. I would hate to go through this process again putting a suncoast in it and the problem be external and in the same spot I am now with a lot more wasted time and money. The transmission has had roughly 10k miles on it since rebuilt. I should also add that it shifts perfectly other than than described issues. I'm currently waiting on an extended hose to come in the mail so I can run a gauge to the cab to monitor pressure. Also, ive been checking fluid frequently and it has no debris and looks super clean but sometimes when I check its covered in air bubbles, I do believe I rememeber reading that air bubbles on tranny dip stick are bad?

Thank you in advance to all that respond. Looking forward to some helpful pointers. Also I should add that my truck is no longer running any tunes/tuner and has been flashed back to stock since before it even went to the transmission shop.
 

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I would invest in the tools needed for you to do the debug and figure out what is not working. Then dig into the AT info on the 48re and find out causes for that problem. Might need something like Autoenginuity's scan tool to be able to execute tests or set solenoids etc.

these guys have (or at least used to when I was debugging my old 48re) a lot of good info on what problems are common with upgraded parts from Sonnax... Might be worth looking into.
Performance Transmissions and Parts for GM, Ford, Dodge from PATC (transmissioncenter.net)


FWIW, back when I first got my truck I had a suncoast VB tossed in there and I had poor performance with it. Trans shop owner saw how much I tried to fix the quirks that it had and suggested a clean VB, that fixed it. Then when the rebuild 2nd time for the trans came at a mere 140k (?) he put in a HD rebuild kit that I think was from Transgo. By that time though I had the issues worked out and the trans was performing well. (2nd rebuild was for a failed block heat exchanger)
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I would invest in the tools needed for you to do the debug and figure out what is not working. Then dig into the AT info on the 48re and find out causes for that problem. Might need something like Autoenginuity's scan tool to be able to execute tests or set solenoids etc.

these guys have (or at least used to when I was debugging my old 48re) a lot of good info on what problems are common with upgraded parts from Sonnax... Might be worth looking into.
Performance Transmissions and Parts for GM, Ford, Dodge from PATC (transmissioncenter.net)


FWIW, back when I first got my truck I had a suncoast VB tossed in there and I had poor performance with it. Trans shop owner saw how much I tried to fix the quirks that it had and suggested a clean VB, that fixed it. Then when the rebuild 2nd time for the trans came at a mere 140k (?) he put in a HD rebuild kit that I think was from Transgo. By that time though I had the issues worked out and the trans was performing well. (2nd rebuild was for a failed block heat exchanger)
Thank you very much for the response. I did have them go ahead and delete the heat exchanger and install external cooler w/fan due to the possible scenario. I will look into the scan tool you mentioned as well as the site you've provided. Thanks again.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That's a nightmare,
why new trans?

I would try pressure test try and find the issue.

Some companies are way overpriced, I would contact Dynamic for a info on rebuild or parts Contact Us (dynamictransparts.com)
or Dave at Goerend for local shop that he recommends
Contact Us (goerend.com)
Thank you for your response

The old trans took a ****, wouldn't move at all in any gear. It too was having nearly the same issue before it took a ****.

When I bought the truck, the transmission had just been rebuilt at 180k on odometer.

Not long after I had it is when I noticed that it wouldn't hold second gear really at all, after first it would hit second at about 10mph and by 15mph it was already in 3rd. Took it to the guys who rebuilt and they seemed absolutely clueless as to what the problem was. They replaced ttva and "put a known working valve body in it" and the same issue was there.

Right at 200k I noticed it slipping real bad when I left the house one morning and before I made it to the store and back it was done for. Thats when I got this rebuild done.

As soon as a longer hose gets here for my gauge, pressure test will be my first move. I have never done it before but located the procedure on these forums and doesn't seem to be much to it. I will also be contacting dave, as I definitely don't have the know how to rebuild it myself. It would be awesome if theres a shop somewhere within a couple hours that he can recommend.
 

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Thank you for your response

The old trans took a *, wouldn't move at all in any gear. It too was having nearly the same issue before it took a *.

When I bought the truck, the transmission had just been rebuilt at 180k on odometer.

Not long after I had it is when I noticed that it wouldn't hold second gear really at all, after first it would hit second at about 10mph and by 15mph it was already in 3rd. Took it to the guys who rebuilt and they seemed absolutely clueless as to what the problem was. They replaced ttva and "put a known working valve body in it" and the same issue was there.

Right at 200k I noticed it slipping real bad when I left the house one morning and before I made it to the store and back it was done for. Thats when I got this rebuild done.

As soon as a longer hose gets here for my gauge, pressure test will be my first move. I have never done it before but located the procedure on these forums and doesn't seem to be much to it. I will also be contacting dave, as I definitely don't have the know how to rebuild it myself. It would be awesome if theres a shop somewhere within a couple hours that he can recommend.
With that said, then its probably not a trans issue... I would download the manual ad dig into all of the wiring to & from the trans, check end to end to make sure the source and destination of each wire is connected correctly. I would also check the wiring harness for chaffed wires. There were a few guys here who had funky things going on which came back to a chaffed wire on the trans harness.

If you find it ends up being in the harness, maybe go back to the 1st guy who worked on it, show him what you found and write a check for the original work he did (?).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
With that said, then its probably not a trans issue... I would download the manual ad dig into all of the wiring to & from the trans, check end to end to make sure the source and destination of each wire is connected correctly. I would also check the wiring harness for chaffed wires. There were a few guys here who had funky things going on which came back to a chaffed wire on the trans harness.

If you find it ends up being in the harness, maybe go back to the 1st guy who worked on it, show him what you found and write a check for the original work he did (?).
I know for fact there is a chaffed wire on the harness.

I also know for a fact that I told the builder that I wanted all new wiring inside and out on the transmission because I had spotted a wire in the harness going to transmission that was chafed to the point that I could see metal. It wasnt done though.

He said that they tested resistance and voltage on all the wires and those causes were ruled out.

Maybe I shouldn't be taking his word on that and I should be hunting a new harness before continuing. My experience chasing and solving electrical issues is little to none.

As far as writing him a check goes if that is the cause. I definitely wouldn't be writing him one for 6k. I spent over 2k in rental vehicle fees due to the amount it was in and out of the shop. Cost me time off work to pick it up, drop it off, go get rental cars, etc. I would most definitely go give him some cash, but it most definitely wouldn't be 6k

Thank you for your response
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I would try to find a way to monitor GPS data from ECM/TCM when doing pressure test, to help rule out control issue.
I have zero experience monitoring said data, I suppose with some research I should be able to. This is one reason though that I've been trying to find a reputable shop to locate the problem as I have zero experience diagnosing these issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I would do some research, on your sig you have HP tuner with proper interface should be able to monitor pretty much everything on these trucks.
Without a doubt, a lot of research ahead of me it seems. Thanks for your input bud, I'm dreading trying to hunt this problem down. Unfortunately I dont have a license anymore for hp tuners since they put a new computer in the truck. I guess I shouldn't sweat that though, will probably be the cheapest, easiest part of the problem to fix lol.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I would try to find a way to monitor GPS data from ECM/TCM when doing pressure test, to help rule out control issue.
Just to clarify, there is no actual tcm on these truck right? The pcm gets info from the sensors in the transmission and the it then tells the transmission what to do?
 

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If your 2nd gear band is adjusted correctly, my guess is that it’s a governor pressure transducer or governor pressure solenoid issue. Really need a scanner to monitor governor pressure as the vehicle picks up speed. The transducer is notoriously unreliable. Replace with the BD kit which converts it to the old style 47re sensor which is tougher, or replace with 48re rostra unit. Sometimes even the rostra have been bad out of the box. Then I’d replace the solenoid with the borg Warner HD unit.

Guys have had issues with the 8 pin connector breaking down around the harness and leaking fluid into the connection.

I have a hard time just jumping to “the computer is bad” when there are more common issues with the governor electronics in these trucks.
 

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Just to clarify, there is no actual tcm on these truck right? The pcm gets info from the sensors in the transmission and the it then tells the transmission what to do?
Correct but
03.5+ Diesels have ECM, engine control module.
ECM has programmed/flashed transmission control.
ECM uses inputs from GPS (governor pressure solenoid), governer pressure/temp sensor, Output speed sensor(OSS) and accelerator position sensor(APPS)

GPS is just used for 1,2,3 shifts.
ECM controls trans relay, found in fusebox, with ground signal to control GPS.
The ECM gives trans 12 volts on pin 1 on case connector and then it controls ground side of governor solenoid thru pin 5.
ECM also controls od/tow haul function and TTVA , Trans throttle Valve Actuator.
That is why important to verify good wiring including ground circuits, at fuse box, ECM, and inside/outside transmission.

If you do the pressure testing with a gauge and can monitor pressure data ,actual and demanded it would help pinpoint if ecm/electrical issue or mechanical trans issue.

Can research more detailed trans info in this post in ATSG guide
Free download - 2006 Factory service manual and ATSG 47/48re trans manual | Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum (cumminsforum.com)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
If your 2nd gear band is adjusted correctly, my guess is that it’s a governor pressure transducer or governor pressure solenoid issue. Really need a scanner to monitor governor pressure as the vehicle picks up speed. The transducer is notoriously unreliable. Replace with the BD kit which converts it to the old style 47re sensor which is tougher, or replace with 48re rostra unit. Sometimes even the rostra have been bad out of the box. Then I’d replace the solenoid with the borg Warner HD unit.

Guys have had issues with the 8 pin connector breaking down around the harness and leaking fluid into the connection.

I have a hard time just jumping to “the computer is bad” when there are more common issues with the governor electronics in these trucks.
Before the trans got rebuilt I did replace both transducer ( with rosta) and gov pressure sensor ( with borg warner HD) and the problem was still there. Also adjust front band. I guess at this point it couldn't hurt to redo all of the above. I just assumed ( i know ) that all of that had been done when being diagnosed by builder.

The computer was also replaced with one sourced from the local dealer ( they also tried diagnosing my trans after rebuild).

Looked over wires the best I could and there's definitely one chaffed going into the push in range sensor.

Working on setting up hp tuners interface to monitor the solenoids hopefully it will help.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Correct but
03.5+ Diesels have ECM, engine control module.
ECM has programmed/flashed transmission control.
ECM uses inputs from GPS (governor pressure solenoid), governer pressure/temp sensor, Output speed sensor(OSS) and accelerator position sensor(APPS)

GPS is just used for 1,2,3 shifts.
ECM controls trans relay, found in fusebox, with ground signal to control GPS.
The ECM gives trans 12 volts on pin 1 on case connector and then it controls ground side of governor solenoid thru pin 5.
ECM also controls od/tow haul function and TTVA , Trans throttle Valve Actuator.
That is why important to verify good wiring including ground circuits, at fuse box, ECM, and inside/outside transmission.

If you do the pressure testing with a gauge and can monitor pressure data ,actual and demanded it would help pinpoint if ecm/electrical issue or mechanical trans issue.

Can research more detailed trans info in this post in ATSG guide
Free download - 2006 Factory service manual and ATSG 47/48re trans manual | Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum (cumminsforum.com)
Awesome, thanks for that. The ATSG guide has tons of information. Pretty sure this is actually the name of the association or whatever that hes a member of that tried helping him diagnose problem. Hell, he even took it do the dealership to have a friend up there try to help him. I specifically remember going up there one day when they were monitoring communication between solenoids and computer to make sure they were all communicating properly. Its just crazy to me that everything you're telling me to do is what they told me they were doing when they had it. I know none of that matters now since it's not fixed and I'm basically starting from scratch on diagnosis. This is a lot of info to digest but I'm trying

I'm working on trying to set up hp tuners interface to monitor the gov solenoid and transducer.

Thanks again for all the info you've provided. I really don't want to end up selling this thing due to not being able to solve the problem
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I promise I'm not a retard.

I set up interface to read all possible transmission parameters

Id like to confirm a few things I noticed

Light Product Font Line Screenshot


Light Font Line Screenshot Circle


Light Product Font Line Screenshot


Font Parallel Number Rectangle Pattern


Voltage is low in first picture. It should be closer to . 66, also actual and desired psi reading should be above 0

Voltage is picture 2 is high, should be somewhere between .90 - 1.10

Voltage in picture 3 is high, should be below 1.80, actual psi seems to be more in line at this point

I am basing this off of "line pressure sensor voltage" being the "wire no.4 sensory signal voltage" in table.

I also noticed that there is to gradual increase in voltage when in Drive, it goes from .47 volts then jumps up to .87ish volts.

When starting in 2nd gear, volts increase much more gradually and inline with acceleration, voltage is also correct as it should be according to table while gear selector is in 2nd

Should my next step be to confirm that the actual reading the scanner is picking up matches and actual gauge?

Sorry in advance for sounding like a dumbass, I would much rather be paying someone to do this.
 

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yes in picture 1, psi should about 8 psi and volts about .90

yes, Voltage in picture 2 is high, should be somewhere between .90 - 1.10

yes, Voltage in picture 3 is high, should be below 1.80

yes should run with gauge connected, that will help rule out if electrical issue with GPS/pressure sensor data and would perform pressure test to see if air bubbles are an issue.
Also have you checked for codes on ECM and cluster (EMIC) ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thank you very much. Extension for gauge came in today, ordered wrong size or was sent wrong one. Have to order another, parts store doesn’t have one long enough to reach cab.

No codes read on scanner, I will go do the ignition thing to check cluster for codes.

I know I have air bubbles on dip stick when checking fluid. I plan to do the pressure test procedure once I finally get a long enough extension to reach cab.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I just check gauge cluster and found the following codes:
P2509
P0713
P0868
P0973
P2769
P0622

Note: Earlier when I was checking connections and wires I attempted to drive vehicle around my block and it was starting in 3rd or 4th gear. When I got back home rechecked connections and noticed I didn't reconnect one all the way. Not sure if thats why all these codes are in cluster now, how long would I have to drive the truck to clear any codes that may have been from that disconnected wire? It was the one that goes to gps/pressure sensor
 
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