Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of this month's Ride of the Month Challenge!

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey y'all, I haven't posted in an aeon, all stuff I could figure out. Here's a good one tho. Piles of white smoke (unburnt fuel) out the exhaust, dead number 1 cylinder on a 95 dodge ram, CTD,12v p-pump manual that fires up instantly and runs great. On 5 cylinders.
Cranking sound is even on all 6, Compression is fine, cyls 1,2,3 all 280psi at 5 degrees F, 10v @ cranking. Only checked 3 because only #1 is acting up. This is a replacement engine from an RV- only about 70k on it now.
As of now, new P pump from Pensacola Diesel, new 7x.011 injectors (second set) from DAP, fuel feed pressure is 40psi at the IP from a raptor pump, valves set proper, everything I check specs out as correct.
I'd waited 2.5 years to put my new p pump in, the guys @ pensacola said it'd be fine. This was a warranty replacement p pump. Same thing with the first p pump from Pensacola. Dead number 1.
Lots of fuel spray out the lines, cylinder 1 is wet (drenched) in fuel in the bore.
Engine ran great 1 month ago. Lift pump failed, drove 7 miles home with no lift pump (how?), changed lift pump and the old p pump didn't behave right. Ran ok, started really hard, misses at high revs... Time to swap in the new p-pump I thought.
Injectors were already newish 7x.011's, but bought a new set to test with a new IP. No change. Swap injectors between cylinders- still number 1 dead...
Been wrenching for many years, fix alot of vehicles for other folks, my own is leaving me scratching my head. Needless to say, it's my work truck, kinda need it running.
I called pensacola after a day or 2 of trying to figure out a dead number 1 cylinder 3 years ago. They agreed, must be a IP problem. Sent them the p pump back for warranty and they accused me of messing with it. The barrel had moved and jammed the rack wide open. I'm glad the truck wouldn't restart at that point. That could only have been their oops in the rebuild process.
So, at that point, I reinstalled my old p pump and been running it til a few weeks ago. Ran great, but old and weak. (Old RV p-pump)
Short story long...WTF? Another bunk p-pump from Pensacola? Anyone heard or experienced anything negative about their work? I think I need to pull the pump, take it to the city and have someone else go thru it...
Any thoughts or ideas are welcome and appreciated. Cheers all, happy holidays!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,341 Posts
IF comp is "fine" ( what are the actual values ) and you have swapped injectors , still with a dead #1 ... then YES quite possible its the IP.
You didnt mention valve train ,, possibly something bent broken on #1 ??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Compression was 280psi exactly on 1,2 and 3. Yeah, thats low, but that was at 5 degrees F, 8000ft asl, 10v cranking, 3 injectors still in their holes.. 2 and 3 fire right up while 1 is left dead cold. Valves are perfect, I've checked everything that could play a role here and dug thru numerous forum posts comparing behavior. Timing is 3, maybe 4 degrees advanced. I'm about to call Pensacola, see what they have to say...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Called Pensacola diesel, the guy was really helpful and after patiently listening to my whole schpiel, he agreed that it could only be the P-pump. He offered to take the IP back and have a look, but that would put me out at least another 3 weeks to ship it to Florida and wait for it to come back. I asked about cracking the hold down nuts on the #1 delivery valve and rotating it slightly to see if there is a change. He said go for it, no warranty anymore anyway. Meh. Found a shop in Denver that can open it up and fix it for $90 an hour. At 50+mpg, my TDI Jetta will take me to Denver and back for less than shipping the pump to Florida.
I'll keep y'all posted...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 24hrsparkey

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,341 Posts
My son is near Denver , I might bug you for some of your diesel shop contacts .
Moved from Maryland about a year ago , now he has bought a 97 project truck . BUT he is missing his secret weapon . ME .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Update: I was hoping you were right 24hrsparkey, but no. I opened up the valve cover and found everything as it should be still. Pushrods are arrow straight and spin free at TDC. .010 and .020 as spec'd.
It fired up again, easy as can be at 25 degrees F, but still on 5 cylinders. Still number 1 dead and cold. Still no difference cracking #1 injection line.
So I cracked the nuts on the #1 DV and was able to rotate it fully anticlockwise, maybe a 32nd of an inch at the ends, and the engine smoothed out considerably. Clockwise didn't help.
After a full warm-up, the idle is smoother, less white smoke. Now it sounds like a cylinder nailing from pre or over fueling, but not a dead miss anymore. Still alot of missing under low speed acceleration, loaded or not. It's smoother under load, but still pretty lumpy at 1500 rpm. At 2k rpm, it smooths out and makes solid power. Like a damn rocket up to 3500+ rpm, smooth as silk on the decel down to a lumpy idle. Moderate grey haze out the exhaust when I romp on it, and a few backfires along with. Now when I crack #1 injection line, at least the rpm drops a bit, not as much as the other 5 tho.
Does it seem dumb to drive it for a couple weeks as is, get these jobs done, then take the pump out and to a shop? Anyone think there a substantial risk of doing more damage to that cylinder as is?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
At the risk of a thread hijack, I'm wondering if anyone else has had dealings with Pensacola Diesel on here and have any other feedback on their injection pumps, as what I'm reading here doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I found out that one of the previous owners of my truck replaced the pump when it failed with a 'performance' rebuilt pump from Pensacola. I emailed them the other week to see if I could get a run down on what their pumps were built to and what differences there were in their performance build, but haven't heard anything back from them. I'm located in Australia so if I have any issues with it going forward it'd be cost prohibitive, not to mention from a time frame point of view, to send it back.

Cheers

Joel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Ok, well Pensacola diesel had the chance to make this right and they basically told me too bad and they didn't care about negative reviews.
Yep, the warranty expired. Long ago.
The pump sat in its box for 2-1/2 years, unopened because there was never time and the truck ran good on the old RV pump that came with the engine.
Yesterday I plucked the pump and today I took it to Diesel Forward in Pueblo. Very friendly, knowledgeable and open to questions. The tech (name omitted to protect privacy) took the time to explain and show me everything as he tested injectors and started testing the pump.
Supposed rebuilt pump, first thing that showed up was number 1 is retarded 5.3 degrees and wouldn't fully seal the spill port off even after removing the shims from under the delivery valve assembly. He rotated the pump and found 1 and 5 are phased differently by 7.1 degrees. So number 1 at 5.3 degrees instead of 0, then number 5 at 72+ degrees instead of 60! WTHH?
Upon disassembly, he chuckled as he showed me a used number 1 barrel assembly, wear marks on it and non Bosch o-rings.
Ya can't tell me that sitting in a box for over 2 years changed cylinder phasing that much and the 3 total hours the truck has run since install caused that wear.
I'd seen enough. I told him to tear it down and do it right and I'd pick it up next week. Too much time and money lost already.
He also explained that with Bosch parts costs, there is no way to do what Pensacola claims with anything but aftermarket parts and limited labor. He said just his labor costs are more than what this supposedly rebuilt pump cost me. Basically I bought a $900+ rebuildable core.
Lesson learned.
Some of us choose wisdom, learning from our own mistakes.
Some choose intelligence, learning from others mistakes.
Please be intelligent and let my mistakes be a lesson.
Cheers y'all, hope it helps somehow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 24hrsparkey

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,341 Posts
Ok, well Pensacola diesel had the chance to make this right and they basically told me too bad and they didn't care about negative reviews.
Yep, the warranty expired. Long ago.
The pump sat in its box for 2-1/2 years, unopened because there was never time and the truck ran good on the old RV pump that came with the engine.
Yesterday I plucked the pump and today I took it to Diesel Forward in Pueblo. Very friendly, knowledgeable and open to questions. The tech (name omitted to protect privacy) took the time to explain and show me everything as he tested injectors and started testing the pump.
Supposed rebuilt pump, first thing that showed up was number 1 is retarded 5.3 degrees and wouldn't fully seal the spill port off even after removing the shims from under the delivery valve assembly. He rotated the pump and found 1 and 5 are phased differently by 7.1 degrees. So number 1 at 5.3 degrees instead of 0, then number 5 at 72+ degrees instead of 60! WTHH?
Upon disassembly, he chuckled as he showed me a used number 1 barrel assembly, wear marks on it and non Bosch o-rings.
Ya can't tell me that sitting in a box for over 2 years changed cylinder phasing that much and the 3 total hours the truck has run since install caused that wear.
I'd seen enough. I told him to tear it down and do it right and I'd pick it up next week. Too much time and money lost already.
He also explained that with Bosch parts costs, there is no way to do what Pensacola claims with anything but aftermarket parts and limited labor. He said just his labor costs are more than what this supposedly rebuilt pump cost me. Basically I bought a $900+ rebuildable core.
Lesson learned.
Some of us choose wisdom, learning from our own mistakes.
Some choose intelligence, learning from others mistakes.
Please be intelligent and let my mistakes be a lesson.
Cheers y'all, hope it helps somehow.
Its fantastic you found a real pump guy whom knows his shiat and will have confidence your pump will be 100% correct upon re install .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Ah, the sweet purr of a proper running Cummins.
New barrels, plungers, rollers, 1 delivery valve holder and a full tune for the pump.
Injectors cleaned and rebalanced around 276bar.
Wow! It runs better than ever! Thank you Diesel Forward Pueblo!
The tech showed me 5 of 6 'rechromed' plungers, 2 with excessive wear on them and missing chrome chipped off and sent thru the delivery valvves into the injectors. Pitted, scratched, worn reused rollers and barrels, 1 different delivery valve holder, governor assembly bolts loose... That pump was a mess inside. Lots of crap parts in a bag to show for it.
Tech said it is one if the hottest p-pumps he'd ever built and said he feared for my engine, told me to take it easy and watch my guages.
Injector and pump install went smooth, timing set 4+ degrees advanced from stock pin timing. Bled out and fired up smooth on all 6, 900 rpm idle, exhaust barely hazy. Once it warmed up, I started giving it some throttle- very responsive and smoother than ever. Lovely new exhaust sound, much sharper, growlier, and cleaner. Test drive mañana...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 24hrsparkey

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,324 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
Well I'm surprised you didn't do your homework prior to buying from Pensacola because you would find a lot of negative posts around the net. Most times you get what you paid for. Hard lesson learned.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top