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Solid Lifters for 2019+

10523 Views 190 Replies 22 Participants Last post by  Bad-Duvall, 
cumminsturbofreak
Been doing some digging and someone (Wagler) is finally offering a solid roller lifter conversion for 2019+ trucks.

It uses the factory ISB adjustable rockers, but just replaces the internals of the hydraulic lifter with a solid spacer. EDIT: Also uses custom pushrods as 2019 uses different ball on lifter and different length.

Seems like a permanent solution for when the hydraulic lifters go bad.
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StealthDiesel
I have wondered if a roller cam and roller lifters would be beneficial in an older 6.7 or 5.9 engine?

  • low rpm engine.
  • but 2 valves per cam lobe, 2 valve springs per cam lobe.
  • fairly high valve lift compared to most gas engines.
  • todays crappy engine oil formulations for flat tappet cams.
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StealthDiesel
Since the roller lifters are not mushroom like the older flat tappet lifters, I was hoping there was some way the roller lifters could be removed from the top without disturbing the cam.

That does seem to be a lot of wear on the cam. I hope the roller lifters are ok.
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StealthDiesel
So the 2019+ roller lifters are not able to be removed from the top and not able to be installed from the top?
And it doesn't sound like wooden dowels can be used to hold the lifters up for cam removal/installation like on the 5.9L engines?
And the timing cover still has to be removed to pull the cam?
And a special tool for installation of the roller lifters.

Good grief, Cummins could have made some changes with the 2019+ engines to make it easier to service the cam and lifters.

What were the guys doing on the 5.9L engines? Using 1.5" ABS pipe cut in a half moon shape and inserted in the cam bore to catch the lifters.
Then using string attached to the lifters to pull them back up into place?


With my luck, I would be ahead of the game to pull the engine oil pan as a 1st step to retrieve the inevitably dropped lifters!

Thanks for sharing the pics and info @cumminsturbofreak ...
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StealthDiesel
Stock valvesprings right?

Are any of the rockers galled or binding? Common on the early 5.9L CR engines..
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StealthDiesel
Roller lifters "shouldn't" require zinc, moly and other additives in the engine oil, even if this 2019 engine had really thin 10W-30 engine oil early in it's life.

I wonder if the 2019+ valve springs are any stiffer than the earlier 6.7 valve springs?
Normally the cam profile is more aggressive with roller lifters and then the valve springs have to be stiffer.

I can't imagine how bad the cam and roller lifter wear would be with stiffer aftermarket valve springs.


I haven't been able to find any info on Jesel Cummins valvetrain parts. Am I missing it on their website or on the Wagler website?
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StealthDiesel
I wonder what the price difference is between the Mopar/Cummins roller lifters and the Jesel/Wagler roller lifters?

Before I installed anything, I would want to closely compare and examine the original lifters with the new Cummins lifters and the new Jesel lifters, trying to determine which is the best choice.

And closely examine and compare the original camshaft and the new Jesel camshaft.

Knowing @cumminsturbofreak , that's exactly what he will do.. :)
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StealthDiesel
elephantrider said:
your making me think about selling !! :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

Lol... I hear that the 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 trucks will be perfect! :)
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StealthDiesel
Not sure if anyone noticed this from Hamilton Cams.

A solid flat tappet conversion kit for the 2019+ Cummins.

’19+ flat tappet conversion kit – admin

hamiltoncams.com hamiltoncams.com

Plus they now offer an aftermarket roller cam.
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StealthDiesel
Someone at Cummins must know what is going on with the changes in their hydraulic roller lifters.

How would someone contact that person?
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StealthDiesel
Which camshaft did you decide to go with?
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StealthDiesel
cumminsturbofreak said:
Wagler stage 1 as that’s all I knew about when ordering. I didn’t even know Hamilton had a setup.
Click to expand...

I don't see any Cummins camshafts on the Wagler website at all.
Is it possible that Wagler is simply selling the Hamilton roller cam?
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StealthDiesel
elephantrider said:
great work. that is a major job. how does it sound? nice and quiet?
Click to expand...

All things being equal, the engine will be louder with solid roller lifters versus the original hydraulic roller lifters!
However since the engine is "lighter" and has a custom ECM tune, I'm sure you won't be able to tell.


@cumminsturbofreak what is the black clip/retainer on the cam gear?


Man I would have been tempted to install head studs at the same time.
However lack of stock and I noticed yesterday that ARP 625+ head studs now retail for US$1600 (CAD$2200). Holy heck...
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StealthDiesel
cumminsturbofreak said:
That is a spring loaded scissor gear. It removes lash and eliminates gear train noise.
Click to expand...



Not sure I would want that anti-rattle assembly to ever fail in the gear train.
KDP all over again. Hopefully it is stronger, thicker, more substantial that it looks.


The engine does sound great.
Running it at 1500 RPM to break in the roller cam and solid roller lifters?

There is for sure a break in procedure for flat tappet cams plus a zinc additive at break in time but I don't recall a break in procedure for roller cams.
Of course my experience is with roller cams in gas engines like my older 5.0L Mustang and various GM LS truck engines.
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StealthDiesel
H3LZSN1P3R said:
Wow that sounds brutal my 19 sounds nothing like that thankfully yet
Click to expand...

How many miles on your 2019 engine and what viscosity and type of engine oil do you use?
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StealthDiesel
Is there any way the cam lifter tool will work for mushroom flat tappet lifters on the earlier engines?
Can it be modified to work on the earlier engines?

I suspect this tool was quite pricey...
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StealthDiesel
Great videos... thanks for making and posting those..

Man that is nerve racking brain surgery to get the lifters back into place, holding them in place with magnets while you install the new camshaft.
Looks more nerve racking than using the wooded dowel method on the flat tappet Cummin cam lifters.
I'm surprised you didn't insert an piece of ABS pipe into the cam journals to prevent any lifter from falling down while you had the camshaft out.
You have nerves of steel.. :)

Like I said earlier, if it was me, I would have pulled the pan since I would have dropped several lifters doing that!

Pulling the engine would be no fun but less nerve racking and no need for that special tool.
You would definitely have to pull the pan if you pulled the engine though.
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StealthDiesel
@cumminsturbofreak what brand of 5W-40 oil were you running?


In theory, roller lifters should be easier on the engine oil than flat tappet lifters.
In theory, hydraulic roller lifters should be quiet and last a long time... :)
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StealthDiesel
I think that the main take from this thread is that if you have ticking noises from your 2019+ engine, as Cumminsturbofreak details, pull the rockers and pushrods and closely examine the cam lobes with a boroscope.


A secondary point, and only my opinion, is the engine oil viscosity.
I hate thin engine oils in anything, especially todays crappy engine oils, and I think running really thin 10W-30 engine oil is not helping the cam and lifters and everything else in the engine.
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StealthDiesel
I guess the bigger discussion is what do we think caused the cam lobe and roller lifter failure in the engine?

And any thoughts on prevention...
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