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I have 03' diesel and with the prices going up, am seriusly looking at helping miliage. does anyone here use a hho kit. Is it worth it or not, and are there any problems? I
 

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I've read many post about it and have yet to see any one get any benefit for using it. Even the guys who bought the fancy factory built units did not see any fuel mileage increase so save your $$$$ and find some thing else to spend it on.
 

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I've been doing a lot of reading on the net and the general thought is that the amount of gas it produces for extra efficiency is canceled out by the amount of energy used to create it. The drag on the alternator uses more fuel than the unit produces.
 

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Good ol' fashioned snake oil.
 

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Like I was reading, the main problem with the HHO generators is that the gains are canceled out by the drag it puts on the alternator, therefor increasing petrol fuel usage... BUT, if you were to power it from another source not depending on your petrol fuel supply then it would have to give MPG improvements.

One thing I read that was suggested was using TEC or TEG (Thermo Electric cooler/generator) to power your HHO generator. A Thermo electric cooler (or peltier device) will get one side extremely cold and the other extremely hot when 12v is applied to it. If you apply heat to one side and cold to the other, it will generate 12v.

I've read some tests where people have experimented with using the exhaust system to heat the unit with a heatsink on the other side to cool it but they got minimal results. Probably because you really need to heat one side and ice down the other to get any usable voltage and amps out of the thing.

I had an idea of having a spare 12v battery just for the HHO generator and a solar panel or two to recharge it. Then it has no strain on the alternator and no decrease in mileage for your regular petrol fuel. The added benefit of the extra HHO fuel has to give an overall benefit. I'm thinking a good quality battery would power a HHO generator for a few hours of driving. Then, during driving, and whenever your truck is parked it's recharging the dedicated battery ready to use again. I drive my truck to a job and park it for 5-7 hours. Perfect for recharging time.

Anyone have any thoughts on this. I'm sure solar panels capable of recharging a car battery would probably be a little costly, but the payoff would be huge if you could get extra MPG with no loss.
 

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Nope, there won't be any payoff. The problem is that by adding hydrogen, you are just adding more (different) fuel. That's never been the problem. The problem is getting a more efficient burn. All that black smoke that everybody seems to love is nothing more than wasted fuel out the back end.
 

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Nope, there won't be any payoff. The problem is that by adding hydrogen, you are just adding more (different) fuel. That's never been the problem. The problem is getting a more efficient burn. All that black smoke that everybody seems to love is nothing more than wasted fuel out the back end.
So how can adding free fuel not be a benefit?
 

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The guys that make all my FREE fuel are making them work just fine on their diesel mercedes. They are seeing 10 to 12 mpg gains on the highway. So therefore, It is worth it on that car. They are in the process of building one for my 12v. I will be sure to post the results. They calculated it down. With the amount of torque produced by the engine anyway I should still see 5 mpg gains with a single unit.

One more thing. This doesnt apply to all lifes lessons but it does mostly apply in the diesel world. IF YOU HAVENT TRIED IT. WHY ARE YOU SAYING IT DOESNT WORK. I may be new here but definatly not to the diesel world and one thing that I have learned is that before you go knocking down people who are only trying to do themselves better. Stop and think for a second. Your nugget isnt just at hat rack. For the most of us anyway. I think that with all that I have seen happen with my rig and making my own fuel for FREE and the outrageous fuel prices, you should all be seeking alternative fuels instead of shooting down every decent idea that comes along. I.E. Nope there wont be any payoff. That guy will be broke from buying diesel in a year. Good luck and seek out that HHO. If it doesnt work. Try something different like posted above about a solar cell and battery.
 

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One incontrovertible fact that makes numbers for the onboard creation of hydrogen challenging is that electrolysis does not create energy, it just converts energy to a different form. It takes as much energy to separate the hydrogen from the water as the hydrogen creates. This is the first law of thermodynamics.

The second law of thermodynamics states that in any energy conversion, such as electrolysis, some energy becomes unusable. Heat lost in the generation of electricity and transmission of electricity, incomplete separation of the hydrogen, etc.

Understanding this is not to poo poo the idea of trying to be innovative, these are just facts that have to be dealt with.

The two big energy wasters in a vehicle are exhaust heat and the kinetic energy stored in the vehicle while it is in motion, an 8,000 lb vehicle in our case.

Here is one interesting use of the heat: Crower six stroke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are there others?

As for kinetic energy, Hybrid cars convert kinetic energy into electricity to charge the batteries. As a result, a Prius will get better fuel mileage in the city than on the highway.
 

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Thing is, if any of the products out there really worked, and worked well the factories would have caught on, retooled, and produced vehicles with it due to the high demand for economic cars and not being able to sell the gas hogs.

But I'll always have a gas hog. I love my 8MPG HEMI.
 

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Nope, there won't be any payoff. The problem is that by adding hydrogen, you are just adding more (different) fuel. That's never been the problem. The problem is getting a more efficient burn. All that black smoke that everybody seems to love is nothing more than wasted fuel out the back end.
That is SOOOOO TRUE!

Also if everyone would slow down and drive at 55 MPH you would see serious saving too... Check sig...:w:
 

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As I understand it you need X amount of air with X amount of diesel to get your burn. Now if you add/mix Hydrogen in with your air you have less space for the air you need to burn your fuel! So by adding Hydrogen does that not take away space that you normally pack air in to?
 

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One incontrovertible fact that makes numbers for the onboard creation of hydrogen challenging is that electrolysis does not create energy, it just converts energy to a different form. It takes as much energy to separate the hydrogen from the water as the hydrogen creates. This is the first law of thermodynamics.

The second law of thermodynamics states that in any energy conversion, such as electrolysis, some energy becomes unusable. Heat lost in the generation of electricity and transmission of electricity, incomplete separation of the hydrogen, etc.

Understanding this is not to poo poo the idea of trying to be innovative, these are just facts that have to be dealt with.

The two big energy wasters in a vehicle are exhaust heat and the kinetic energy stored in the vehicle while it is in motion, an 8,000 lb vehicle in our case.

Here is one interesting use of the heat: Crower six stroke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are there others?

As for kinetic energy, Hybrid cars convert kinetic energy into electricity to charge the batteries. As a result, a Prius will get better fuel mileage in the city than on the highway.
I had read about the electrolisis process taking more energy that it creates. That's why I think HHO generators as they're being made for cars now won't work (or won't help for mileage gains) But I do think that they create usable fuel, that if you had a ready made can of it and put it into the engine the same way the HHO generator does, then you would have MPG gains.

So that's why I thought if you could create a power source that doesn't rely on your regular fuel then you are really getting the HHO for free. It would be like a ready made bottle of it all the time.

I don't know if a solar panel charging a battery it's own (completely separate from the trucks electrical system) would keep up with the HHO generator, but with a system like that you would have nothing but gains from the extra fuel.
 

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OK. I guess cold hard facts aren't good enough. 10 to 12 MPG gains is what I said. That was canceled out in your thread is what happened. Thats the first law of stubbornness. You are all set in your ways and cant see a different path. Almost this whole site is like this. Hell half the retards here don't even own a diesel. I'm going back to CompD.
 

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As I understand it you need X amount of air with X amount of diesel to get your burn. Now if you add/mix Hydrogen in with your air you have less space for the air you need to burn your fuel! So by adding Hydrogen does that not take away space that you normally pack air in to?
Wow. Thats all I can say is wow.
 

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electrolysis

I think it would work. I understand that it takes energy to create the gas, but it's electricity that your truck is not using anyway. Sure it draws more juice, but isn't that what a voltage regulator is for? I could very well be totally wrong, and set me strait if I am, but we have two batteries just to start the engine. After that, we don't need both. Also, I have a 136 amp alternator. Why not use some of that to create some more fuel? The alternator is going to turn at the same rate no matter how much juice I'm drawing from it so it isn't going to eat any extra hp, right? I hear these systems use about 12 to 13 amps. It seems that all you would have to do is hook it up to an accessory circuit or a relay and maybe throw a toggle switch in the mix so it won't turn on until the motor is running (thus not drawing from the cranking amps). I'm going to try it out anyways and post my results.
 

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OK. I guess cold hard facts aren't good enough. 10 to 12 MPG gains is what I said. That was canceled out in your thread is what happened. Thats the first law of stubbornness. You are all set in your ways and cant see a different path. Almost this whole site is like this. Hell half the retards here don't even own a diesel. I'm going back to CompD.
No need to be an a$$

I was stating COLD HARD FACTS. Somebody claiming to get an extra 10 MPG is not COLD HARD FACTS. Why don't you go back and try reading all the hundreds of previous post regarding this product. I've read more than my fair share of them, and I have yet to see anybody see any real gains. About the best I've seen is mid 16s, and guess what, that's what I get when I dive with a light foot. And aren't you just a bit curious that the person who is selling you the product is the only one seeing any gains, especially 10+ MPG?? But more power to you for wanting to try alternative fuels. I myself am in the process of setting up for biodiesel.
 

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96ram1500

As I stated before, the problem isn't that we don't have enough fuel, but that we need a more complete burn. When you see one of these highly modified diesel trucks hauling a$$ and putting out a black cloud of smoke, that's just wasted fuel. The key to getting better MPG is to burn all the fuel we are putting through the motor.
 

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black smoke

The way I understand it, the hydrogen will actually help this problem because the hyrdogen will definitely ignite, making sure more fuel will ignite with it.
 
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