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Sorry. But now vid2
https://youtu.be/j42WXZUQe7s
https://youtu.be/j42WXZUQe7s
Return Flow rate again
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Submissions now being taken for AUGUST CUMMINS OF THE MONTH!
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Today I wanted to check the compression. I found a pushrod without a "ball". See the other thread. I hope an admin can merge the two threads.
As I said, I could not measure compression without pushrod. I also couldn't find an adapter that would fit. I ordered one.
In my first video of cylinder2 you can see these dry black spots. Are they hotspots, soot deposits? If they are from the old injectors. I don't know. Let's replace the pushrod and measure the compression. But the cylinder surface still looks quite good. Even the scorch marks are still visible. Rghavana wrote about the oil analysis. 2mg aluminium and 14mg iron in the oil after about 1000 miles. Lab says okay. But no diesel or carbon. I'm waiting for the compression. Except for the hotspots on the piston, it still looks good. At least it hasn't melted. Ho ho ho. The highest exhaust temperature I've seen on Smarty was 1100 for a very short time. Full throttle on the highway when overtaking. Just a few seconds. Haven't had a load in a long time either. Mostly empty.
By the way, thanks to all of you for your help.
Have a nice sunday. Here with me it is now 6pm.
As I said, I could not measure compression without pushrod. I also couldn't find an adapter that would fit. I ordered one.
In my first video of cylinder2 you can see these dry black spots. Are they hotspots, soot deposits? If they are from the old injectors. I don't know. Let's replace the pushrod and measure the compression. But the cylinder surface still looks quite good. Even the scorch marks are still visible. Rghavana wrote about the oil analysis. 2mg aluminium and 14mg iron in the oil after about 1000 miles. Lab says okay. But no diesel or carbon. I'm waiting for the compression. Except for the hotspots on the piston, it still looks good. At least it hasn't melted. Ho ho ho. The highest exhaust temperature I've seen on Smarty was 1100 for a very short time. Full throttle on the highway when overtaking. Just a few seconds. Haven't had a load in a long time either. Mostly empty.
By the way, thanks to all of you for your help.
Have a nice sunday. Here with me it is now 6pm.
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85 Posts
By the way, the loud ticking on cylinder2 with injector2 moved with the exchange on cylinder3. So there is definitely something wrong with injector2 which is now in cylinder3. The broken pushrod does not explain the high return fuel quantity. I forgot to tell you that I already built my rail blockoff cap yesterday. Not welded, but with hydraulic bolts. Did not take any pictures in the pushrod excitement. No matter. Then I disconnected and blocked cyl. 1.2.3. Then watched the RP on the smarty. Without change. Idling between 6,000 and 7,500, up and down. Not continuous. 4.5.6 not yet blocked. Since I suspect the problem at one or/and two. I have also filmed all other cylinders. I didn't see any black hotspots.
I think the other bumps on the pistons are just dirt from the injectors. The resolution of the camera could be better.
I think the other bumps on the pistons are just dirt from the injectors. The resolution of the camera could be better.
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85 Posts
i also tested for air bubbles in the fuel line. transparent hose directly in front of the CP3. pressure measured.
No bubbles. 15 psi at idle and throttle. constant, no fluctuation
https://youtu.be/gk4cQBO-cLU
No bubbles. 15 psi at idle and throttle. constant, no fluctuation
https://youtu.be/gk4cQBO-cLU
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8,373 Posts
Just let other post die, admins are MIA.
for stock power Cummins OEM is good.
new design is part number you stated.
Pretty common issue with galling of trunions and bushing , last component to get oil, if not too bad Cummins says okay to clean up with Emory cloth, then redesigned part. :spank:
Why did it, push rod break, like steelhead said most common;
Solid lifter no interference engines, no room for error, set valves cold turn motor over by hand, always double check.
Very important to put any parts exactly back were they originally came from, Components breakin/wear together from running for thousands of miles/KM.
Possible shock, valve hit piston from fueling issue.
Definitely have an issue if new injectors look like that, see what injector/compression/leakdown test show, but with just push rod issue I am pulling head to clean up/check for issue in upper and lower end of engine, Cheaper in long run.:thumbup:
Stock or higher power planned??
for stock power Cummins OEM is good.
new design is part number you stated.
Pretty common issue with galling of trunions and bushing , last component to get oil, if not too bad Cummins says okay to clean up with Emory cloth, then redesigned part. :spank:
Why did it, push rod break, like steelhead said most common;
Solid lifter no interference engines, no room for error, set valves cold turn motor over by hand, always double check.
Very important to put any parts exactly back were they originally came from, Components breakin/wear together from running for thousands of miles/KM.
Possible shock, valve hit piston from fueling issue.
Definitely have an issue if new injectors look like that, see what injector/compression/leakdown test show, but with just push rod issue I am pulling head to clean up/check for issue in upper and lower end of engine, Cheaper in long run.:thumbup:
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1,811 Posts
Those injectors will have the spray pattern of a Russian fire brigade with no water pressure. Build up of carbon affecting holes spray angles.
Soak ends of injectors in high strength solvent, MEK if you can get it otherwise acetone until clean.
Do you have VCO or SAC nozzles? Solvent soak will clean the SAC nozzles better, less pintle contact.
"Normal" wear for Cummins rocker wear. Smear with high moly ZDP assembly lube and put back together, will go for another 300K miles. Add extra ZDDP moly additives to your oil if you can still get the stuff in EU.
Use a high moly high ZDDP 15w40 diesel rated oil if you can still get the stuff in EU. The 15w40 does not drain off as much at shutdown, leaves more residual oil on valve train to withstand 0 oil pressure startup loads
LiquiMoly used to make some quality products that prevented most startup metal<>metal 0 oil pressure contact wear until there was an oil load bearing film
Looked like a pretty BIG ball to me to be sucking up?
But, then I'm no expert on balls
Soak ends of injectors in high strength solvent, MEK if you can get it otherwise acetone until clean.
Do you have VCO or SAC nozzles? Solvent soak will clean the SAC nozzles better, less pintle contact.
"Normal" wear for Cummins rocker wear. Smear with high moly ZDP assembly lube and put back together, will go for another 300K miles. Add extra ZDDP moly additives to your oil if you can still get the stuff in EU.
Use a high moly high ZDDP 15w40 diesel rated oil if you can still get the stuff in EU. The 15w40 does not drain off as much at shutdown, leaves more residual oil on valve train to withstand 0 oil pressure startup loads
LiquiMoly used to make some quality products that prevented most startup metal<>metal 0 oil pressure contact wear until there was an oil load bearing film
Looked like a pretty BIG ball to me to be sucking up?
But, then I'm no expert on balls
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85 Posts
Hi,
I should have sac sac. As far as I know all bbi have sac nozzles except the 0.1 stage. I've always driven 15w40 oil. Truck type e7. At the last oil change I also added zdd. Yesterday I got some packages. New pushrods and rocker arm packages. Adapter for compression measurement. Now I have 2 days holiday and can measure everything again. I replaced the broken pushrod and rocker arm last night. Valve clearance adjusted all over again. Completely cold as always. Then I drove home from work. Today I measure compression and pressure loss. Then I will get back to you with the results.
I should have sac sac. As far as I know all bbi have sac nozzles except the 0.1 stage. I've always driven 15w40 oil. Truck type e7. At the last oil change I also added zdd. Yesterday I got some packages. New pushrods and rocker arm packages. Adapter for compression measurement. Now I have 2 days holiday and can measure everything again. I replaced the broken pushrod and rocker arm last night. Valve clearance adjusted all over again. Completely cold as always. Then I drove home from work. Today I measure compression and pressure loss. Then I will get back to you with the results.
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Not sure what e7 type means??
As far as oil, going by my Autometer oil pressure gauge in my 2004 with sender connected to to top of oil filter housing, I have been running 5w-40, viscosity with temperature below 50 F (10 C)
IMO, took too long on cold start up to get oil pressure up. Then 15w-40 in warmer 50F+.
About half way thru 10k OCI use STP Oil treatment (german invention :wink2
for zinc boost.
Should have real Oil pressure gauge OEM is fake, choose weight by your environment.
Hopefully compression good!! Been issues with rings.
06 has piston ring gap for emissions. see https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-powertrain/1323945-piston-ring-gap.html
Dodge /Cummins compression test info.
CYLINDER COMPRESSION PRESSURE
Ensure batteries are completely charged and the engine starter motor is in good operating condition. Otherwise, the indicated compression pressures may not be valid for diagnostic purposes.
1. Disconnect the fuel inlet line to the fuel filter housing. Plug the fuel line from the fuel tank.
NOTE: Failure to plug fuel line will result in fuel leak.
2. Remove fuel transfer pump fuse/relay.
3. Start the engine and idle until the engine stalls (runs out of fuel).
4. Remove the cylinder head cover. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/CYLINDER HEAD/CYLINDER HEAD COVER(S) -
REMOVAL)
5. Remove the cylinder head cover carrier gasket. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/CYLINDER HEAD/CYLINDER HEAD COVER(S) - REMOVAL)
6. Remove the high pressure fuel line between the cylinder head and fuel rail for the cylinder to be tested. Use tool# 9011 to cap this fuel rail on the cylinder being tested.
7. Remove the fuel connector tube nut and fuel connector tube.
8. Remove the exhaust rocker lever.
9. Use Tool 9010 to remove the injector and copper sealing washer.
10. Install the exhaust rocker lever and torque to 36 N·m (27 ft. lbs.).
11. Cover the remaining rocker levers with clean shop towels to prevent any oil splatter under the
hood.
12. Place a rag over the compression test tool fitting. Crank the engine for 2–3 seconds to purge any fuel that may have drained into the cylinder when the injector was removed.
13. Connect the compression test gauge.
14. Crank the engine for 5 seconds and record the pressure reading. Repeat this step three times and calculate the average of the three readings.
NOTE: The minimum cylinder pressure is 350 psi. Cylinder pressure should be within 20% from cylinder to cylinder.
15. Combustion pressure leakage can be checked if cylinder pressure is below the specification. Perform the leakage test procedure on each cylinder according to the tester manufacturer instructions.
16. Upon completion of the test check and erase any engine related fault codes.
As far as oil, going by my Autometer oil pressure gauge in my 2004 with sender connected to to top of oil filter housing, I have been running 5w-40, viscosity with temperature below 50 F (10 C)
IMO, took too long on cold start up to get oil pressure up. Then 15w-40 in warmer 50F+.
About half way thru 10k OCI use STP Oil treatment (german invention :wink2
for zinc boost. Should have real Oil pressure gauge OEM is fake, choose weight by your environment.
Hopefully compression good!! Been issues with rings.
06 has piston ring gap for emissions. see https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-powertrain/1323945-piston-ring-gap.html
Dodge /Cummins compression test info.
CYLINDER COMPRESSION PRESSURE
Ensure batteries are completely charged and the engine starter motor is in good operating condition. Otherwise, the indicated compression pressures may not be valid for diagnostic purposes.
1. Disconnect the fuel inlet line to the fuel filter housing. Plug the fuel line from the fuel tank.
NOTE: Failure to plug fuel line will result in fuel leak.
2. Remove fuel transfer pump fuse/relay.
3. Start the engine and idle until the engine stalls (runs out of fuel).
4. Remove the cylinder head cover. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/CYLINDER HEAD/CYLINDER HEAD COVER(S) -
REMOVAL)
5. Remove the cylinder head cover carrier gasket. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/CYLINDER HEAD/CYLINDER HEAD COVER(S) - REMOVAL)
6. Remove the high pressure fuel line between the cylinder head and fuel rail for the cylinder to be tested. Use tool# 9011 to cap this fuel rail on the cylinder being tested.
7. Remove the fuel connector tube nut and fuel connector tube.
8. Remove the exhaust rocker lever.
9. Use Tool 9010 to remove the injector and copper sealing washer.
10. Install the exhaust rocker lever and torque to 36 N·m (27 ft. lbs.).
11. Cover the remaining rocker levers with clean shop towels to prevent any oil splatter under the
hood.
12. Place a rag over the compression test tool fitting. Crank the engine for 2–3 seconds to purge any fuel that may have drained into the cylinder when the injector was removed.
13. Connect the compression test gauge.
14. Crank the engine for 5 seconds and record the pressure reading. Repeat this step three times and calculate the average of the three readings.
NOTE: The minimum cylinder pressure is 350 psi. Cylinder pressure should be within 20% from cylinder to cylinder.
15. Combustion pressure leakage can be checked if cylinder pressure is below the specification. Perform the leakage test procedure on each cylinder according to the tester manufacturer instructions.
16. Upon completion of the test check and erase any engine related fault codes.
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Update to the leakdown test. I have tested with cold engine. Does that make a big difference? With a warm engine it should be better? But it doesn't have to be better. Here is a picture of the gauge with the "lowest" value. Single cylinders each on tdc. With blocked connection set to "set0" and then connected to the cylinder. First run with completely dry cylinders. Second pass with some sprayed oil. All cylinders are always in the yellow set range. Times more times less. But always in the yellow set range. So, compression chambers absolutely tight. Then I believe the broken pushrod did not cause any further damage. Right? I'd say the head stays on?!
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Seems like compression is high/consistent which is good, very close psi across all cylinders.
leakdown % reading consistent? same percent between each cylinder, should be good.
If you had other symptoms/inconsistencies, and/or borderline on specs probably more important to conduct test hot.
At this point probably wait for injectors test to pull head.
Try and figure out why push rod failed like that.
Possible to take another old push rod exam/test it?
Make sure, spring/valve not weak /sticking ie functioning properly? cause bind.
Make sure tappet where push rod sits no damage/issues. Compare with other tappet/pushrods fit, amount of adjustment on rocker compared to other valves should be close, rocker movement, if something seems off.
Cp3 seems like good volume, never heard of Maximum. with out sending out CP3 to test to Bosch faciity, AFAIK monitoring rail pressure demanded vs actual would show if Cp3 is not supplying proper fuel requested by ECM, when running.
Should verify no issues in return plumbing.
leakdown % reading consistent? same percent between each cylinder, should be good.
If you had other symptoms/inconsistencies, and/or borderline on specs probably more important to conduct test hot.
At this point probably wait for injectors test to pull head.
Try and figure out why push rod failed like that.
Possible to take another old push rod exam/test it?
Make sure, spring/valve not weak /sticking ie functioning properly? cause bind.
Make sure tappet where push rod sits no damage/issues. Compare with other tappet/pushrods fit, amount of adjustment on rocker compared to other valves should be close, rocker movement, if something seems off.
Cp3 seems like good volume, never heard of Maximum. with out sending out CP3 to test to Bosch faciity, AFAIK monitoring rail pressure demanded vs actual would show if Cp3 is not supplying proper fuel requested by ECM, when running.
Should verify no issues in return plumbing.
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85 Posts
Rghavana, thank you very much for your participation and good info. I'll leave the head on for now. At the moment the injectors are at my local bosch service. Let's see what comes out. Only then can I look further. Just in case, I have renewed all pushrods and rocker arms. Rockerarms the current version with additional lubrication groove. The heads of the tapps controlled by camera. They all look the same. I can also lift all tapps with the pushrod. So the surface should be good. Valves all run smoothly. Not a scratch on them. Seals all still there and tight.
Why the one pushrod failed? Maybe one of the rocker arms jammed. They were already visibly shrunk. Maybe a material defect after all? It could always be. The engine never ran at too high a speed. Smarty max was sw3 with default settings for rp, tq, time .
For the oil pressure I have my own display in the pit and also already checked with hyd.manometer. the pressure comes immediately at start. Cold equal to 55psi at idle. With warming up then 12 psi at idle.
I am now waiting for bosch. If these are good they will come back in with new xtubes.
Why the one pushrod failed? Maybe one of the rocker arms jammed. They were already visibly shrunk. Maybe a material defect after all? It could always be. The engine never ran at too high a speed. Smarty max was sw3 with default settings for rp, tq, time .
For the oil pressure I have my own display in the pit and also already checked with hyd.manometer. the pressure comes immediately at start. Cold equal to 55psi at idle. With warming up then 12 psi at idle.
I am now waiting for bosch. If these are good they will come back in with new xtubes.
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Fuel return line was one of the first things I checked. I even drove with a canister under the return line of the engine. To prevent a sporadic blockage in the line to the tank. Without change. What comes to my mind when I measured the injector return fuel rate I noticed that the fuel pulsation came from the pipe. At a frequency of about 4 Hz I would say. And every second pulse, there were these gaseous bubbles.
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