Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum banner

1 - 20 of 1297 Posts

·
BC Chapter President
Joined
·
1,361 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I posted this last week in a different thread. Think it requires its own thread.

This one has me worried about my family's safety and the safety of others if I crash into them.

Edit March 8th 2016:
New info posted

Bracket installation instructions:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...5V541-6371.pdf

Addendum to the above:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...5V541-1375.pdf

And Powerwagons are now not part of R46 recall
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...5V541-4914.pdf

Edit: February 6th 2016
“Vehicles with track bar brackets found without cracked welds will be returned to the customer. A track bar reinforcement bracket - which is not currently available - will eventually be installed. FCA is making every effort to manufacture and secure these remedy parts as quickly as possible. The current ETA for these parts and repairs is February 2016 for vehicles with four-wheel drive, and April 2016 for 4x2 vehicles. FCA will contact these customers again, by mail, with a follow-up recall notice, when their parts are available.”
Edit: November 12th the first round of dealer instructions are published for the visual inspection for cracks in the welds.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM490691/RCRIT-15V541-5721.pdf

Edit: November 22nd
Looks like the "bracket" for part two will be out in MARCH 2016...
REMEDY:
Chrysler will notify owners, and dealers will inspect and install a reinforcement bracket over the front track bar bracket. Chrysler issued an interim notification to owners on October 16, 2015. Owners will receive a second notice when remedy parts become available. Parts are expected to be available in March 2016. Owners may contact Chrysler customer service at 1-800-853-1403. Chrysler's number for this recall is R46.
SUMMARY:
Chrysler (FCA US LLC) is recalling certain model year 2014 Ram 2500 trucks and 2013-2014 Ram 3500 trucks and cab chassis manufactured October 9, 2012, to July 29, 2014. The affected vehicles may have inadequate welds securing the front track bar frame brackets, which may result in the bracket components separating from the frame.

CONSEQUENCE:
If the bracket components separate from the frame, the vehicle may be more difficult to steer and control, increasing the risk of a crash.

REMEDY:
The remedy for this recall is still under development. The recall is expected to begin October 9, 2015. Owners may contact Chrysler customer service at 1-800-853-1403. Chrysler's number for this recall is R46.
Edit: October 25th new info that's outdated already.

REMEDY:
The remedy for this recall is still under development. Chrysler issued an interim notification to owners on October 16, 2015. The recall is expected to begin October 24, 2015.
This is the part that scares me

On July 27, 2015, FCA US Chassis Frame Engineering reviewed possible inspection options with FCA US Materials Engineering and determined there was no reliable inspection method to detect if these particular welds had inadequate fusion.

One member on here had his fail!
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2013-general-discussion/916793-2013-up-issues-thread-80.html#post19539330

I have a 2014 ram 2500 4x4 with 17k miles nothing but highway miles on the truck so far. I was driving down my road leaving the house when I heard a loud pop and lost control of my truck. Long story short some welds broke on the frame that are connected to my suspension. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this on a brand new truck? Any ideas how I should handle the issue Chrysler has had my truck for a month and it is still not fixed.
They are sending me pictures I am very disappointed in the customer service that I have had from Chrysler. They just informed me they are taking about replacing the frame which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I will post the pictures when I get them. I'm hoping they stand by their work and give me a new truck I'm not sure I could trust that one again.
And this guy
Here are two better pics and a markup showing what looks to me like welds that are not fused. I think dieselwelder is right.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2013-general-discussion/1513130-2013-3500-2wd-drw-track-bar-bracket-broke-away-frame.html



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
BS on the inspection part. the welds can be x-rayed to see if there is proper penatration. But the expence would be large on RAMs part but it would be reliable.

I work with a welder who used to be a weld inspector at the tank plant in Lima,ohio where the built the A1.

There is always a way to inspect a weld.



-Mike
 

·
BC Chapter President
Joined
·
1,361 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Even though they will have more info on Oct 9th it will be weeks~months for parts and a service appointment.

So what's a guy to do here? Wait for Ram or get my truck to a certified (and trusted) welder?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
Unless you want to tear your truck and cut a sample of the weld out and look at it , there is not much you can do. A visual inspection wont give you much even if you use a paint stripper to remove the under coating, unless you really know what your looking at.

Something you could do is a daily check on it. Before you get in your truck stick your head under the truck and look for cracks around the track bar area.



-Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Unless you want to tear your truck and cut a sample of the weld out and look at it , there is not much you can do. A visual inspection wont give you much even if you use a paint stripper to remove the under coating, unless you really know what your looking at.

Something you could do is a daily check on it. Before you get in your truck stick your head under the truck and look for cracks around the track bar area.



-Mike
Crawling under the truck daily to inspect frame welds at trac bar mount isn't a fun idea. But good exercise for those that need it :hehe:

I would take it to a certified welder with proper equipment to verify a good weld is in place, if the dealer will not inspect for you. It is going to be a tough fix to get right as it involves frame welding/strengthening. It will be months before Ram will decide what to replace/repair and months to get the parts on hand. Definitely a lot of recalls for steering now after neglecting the previous years and offering buyback option for those trucks Ram does not want to get any more fines for waiting to long to recall new issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Can't wait to see what they decide to do. My truck was built during this time. Not good.
Same here. Mine was built June 2014. Also seen your from Abingdon, live right next door in Castlewood.
 

·
BC Chapter President
Joined
·
1,361 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Mine was build 07-08-14 @ 19:00 hours.
Looks like I have some rust under one of the welds



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Haven't had a chance to check mine out yet, going to first thing tomorrow. Makes it hard to enjoy driving the truck with this in the back of my mind. I mean what happens if these break going 70mph down the freeway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,197 Posts
Probably be in a world of poop. :shock:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kirwin

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,104 Posts
Kind of like if your driver side airbag deployed. Wrong time and that could be very dangerous. Those things dont feel very good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
795 Posts
Well, just checked mine, and looks like I just made it outside the window. 8/11. Here's hoping they don't find out it goes further than they though it did, and that you guys get real resolutions to the problem. I don't envy you at all.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,104 Posts
I am curious how if they dont have a adequate inspection ability to do these how is it any different for any of the 13 plus. So did they already know the welds were suspect because of a process they were using at the time and just hoped nothing would happen until one broke?

Just seems kind of odd they can narrow it down to a specific date when they say they cant even inspect them properly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
901 Posts
Remember wayyy back in the day when we were all waiting for our 2013's to be delivered? And they were all sitting in Mexico in a yard, and frames were being rebuilt....:shock:

Hmmm???
 

·
BC Chapter President
Joined
·
1,361 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I am curious how if they dont have a adequate inspection ability to do these how is it any different for any of the 13 plus. So did they already know the welds were suspect because of a process they were using at the time and just hoped nothing would happen until one broke?

Just seems kind of odd they can narrow it down to a specific date when they say they cant even inspect them properly.
• On May 15, 2014, the FCA US LLC (“FCA US”) Vehicle Safety and Regulatory Compliance (“VSRC”) department became aware of two incidents involving 2013 model year Ram Truck (“D2”) vehicles (DG609181, DG597993) where the front track bar bracket frame welds had separated.
• Additional incidents involving Ram Truck (“D2”) vehicles were reported on February 7, 2014 (DG604202) and May 22, 2014 (DG575130).
• The front track bar frame bracket assembly is welded to the frame with robotic welds. In the front track bar bracket assembly two welds are straight lap welds applied manually at the bracket supplier, Metalsa. The straight lap welds are classified as front and rear. The track bar bracket and associated welds are similar between D2 (2013 MY) and DJ, D2 and DD (2014 MY).
• In each of the four incidents above the straight lap welds had separated due to a lack of fusion between the weld and the parent metal (two front & two rear failures).
• Two of the four incident vehicle brackets were completely separated from the frame, while the other two were only partially separated at the time of discovery.
• The manufacturer’s build dates for the four frames in question ranged from May 20, 2013 to June 20, 2013.
• At the time of discovery, the root cause for the 2013 MY D2 vehicles was thought to be caused by inadequate training during the addition of a second shift at the frame supplier, Metalsa, between the months of April and July 2013, while the 2014 MY vehicle failures were deemed an isolated incident.
• On July 1, 2014, the FCA US VSRC became aware of an additional incident involving a 2014 MY vehicle (EG180503). The manufacturer’s build date for this frame was November 29, 2013.
• On July 14, 2014 Metalsa implemented robotic welding for the straight lap welds to replace the previous manual process.
• As of September 8, 2014, FCA US was unaware of any accidents or injuries potentially related to this issue.
• On September 10, 2014, due to the small number and isolated nature of the incidences, FCA US continued to monitor the field for input.
• On March 5, 2015, Metalsa presented to FCA US the root cause investigation status, corrective action and review of incidents for this issue.
• As of April 4, 2015, FCA US was made aware of one minor accident related to this issue with no alleged injuries.
• On May 4, 2015, the FCA US VSRC reviewed internal weld analysis of incident parts from the field. Results showed some welds with inadequate fusion.
• On May 20, 2015, Metalsa presented to FCA US an updated description of issue, corrective action and review of incidents.
• On June 11, 2015, the FCA US VSRC reviewed additional internal weld analysis of incident parts from the field. Analysis confirmed additional examples of welds with inadequate fusion.
• On July 15, 2015, the FCA US VSRC held an Investigation Steering Group (“ISG”) meeting with recommendation to review this item with all governing members at the next meeting.
• On July 22, 2015, the FCA US VSRC held an ISG meeting in which it was requested that engineering revisit inspection techniques that could be made available to the dealer to identify affected vehicles.
• On July 27, 2015, FCA US Chassis Frame Engineering reviewed possible inspection options with FCA US Materials Engineering and determined there was no reliable inspection method to detect if these particular welds had inadequate fusion.
• On July 29, 2015, the FCA US VSRC held an ISG meeting which recommended that the issue be forwarded to the Vehicle Regulations Committee (“VRC”) once supporting documentation was completed.
• The suspect period was established as SOP for 2013 D2 to July 29, 2014, SOP 2014 DJ DD DX to July 29, 2014 at STAP.
• As of July 30, 2015, FCA US identified approximately 11 CAIRs, zero VOQs and zero field reports related to this issue.
• As of August 11, 2015, total warranty is 43 at 0.2c/1000.
• The potentially affected vehicles include 2013 MY D2 and 2014 MY DJ, D2 and DD, vehicles built from start of volume production to July 29, 2014, at Saltillo Truck Assembly Plant (“STAP”).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,104 Posts
Well looked at mine today (its a jan 2014 build date) and two things annoy me or that I perceive about them.

1 Why dont they have the welds go all the way to the end of the joint being welded. When you stop early it usually always causes a stresser at that point which leads to cracks developing.

2 If you look at the 4th picture in post two I think it is you can see where the bracket side of the weld looks like good penetration, even not round and beady lookin. On the frame side the weld looks like it is laying on the frame, it looks to have bad penetration. Atleast to me, be nice if some welders in here could chime in maybe. It looks like a weld that is not adequate for the thickness of metal they are welding too (too low a heat/voltage, to quick maybe).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
Well looked at mine today (its a jan 2014 build date) and two things annoy me or that I perceive about them.

1 Why dont they have the welds go all the way to the end of the joint being welded. When you stop early it usually always causes a stresser at that point which leads to cracks developing.

2 If you look at the 4th picture in post two I think it is you can see where the bracket side of the weld looks like good penetration, even not round and beady lookin. On the frame side the weld looks like it is laying on the frame, it looks to have bad penetration. Atleast to me, be nice if some welders in here could chime in maybe. It looks like a weld that is not adequate for the thickness of metal they are welding too (too low a heat/voltage, to quick maybe).
My theory is this...If a welder had looked at the job and actually did the weld, our trucks would way about ten more pounds. (This is a good thing)

However, reality is, an engineer sitting in front of a computer screen signs off that their methods will work and is safe. Another engineer, sitting in front of computer, programs the parameters into the robots doing the weld. As far as they are concerned, the job is complete and correct. (They also hate diesels and lick tree bark at lunch). The bean counters love this model because from a risk management standpoint, the risk of a recall is substantially low and if there is a recall, it is still cheaper than actually having a human do the hands on work start to finish.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13 Posts
Frosty 42,

The welds in question are the ones that were welded by a person not a machine. All the welds in the pictures look like crap to me. All though I do not weld day to day any more, I was trained in the art/skill and still use that skill periodically thanks to my relationship with my contractor who is signatory with UA Local 208 Pipefitters Denver, Colorado. Before anybody chimes in, I will be the first to admit that we are not structuale welders like my Iron Worker Brothers. However, I believe we are the only trade (In this example I include pipeliners as pipefitters as we do the same work more or less, weld pipe) that welds things from the inside out, and have to have our welds routinely x-ray inspected when working on critical pipe. With that being said I would have rather seen the welds in those pictures undercut than setting on top of the parent metal as they appear to be doing. The Welds, in my opinion look like cold welds that would pop right off. In fact, some of those welds look like a wire flux welder was used ( possibly a stick welder, but I doubt it) and they didn't even knock the slag off before they painted it. I say this because of how smooth and rounded the weld is. I would be interested to see some pictures of some 2015 trucks that have the robotically welded track arms to see how different they look.
 
1 - 20 of 1297 Posts
Top