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Propane, my conclusions

1418 Views 10 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  eou_edu
To answer the first question yes i can use the search button. I just didn't feel like the threads had very solid conclusion on running propane. I'm considering it for my truck as a way to save on and don't really care about power. The kit I'm looking at is the fumigation kit: Propane Injection Systems, fuel saving in Diesel, Gas, Turbocharged Engine Trucks & water vapor air fuel system separators. I've read banks anti propane write up. The argument for propane says it was a catalyst to burn the diesel more complete and it helps burn the 25% of diesel that is being wasted out the exhaust. Banks dispels this myth. I believe this is an exaggeration but is there some truth to that? My conclusion on that thus far, 12 valves might waste 5% unburned diesel out the exhaust. If propane really helps burn that, you are saving that 5% in fuel........My conclusion might be an exaggeration. That is just a guess based on knowing that 12 valves don't burn 100% efficiently.

Detonation I've read up and down on that. My conclusion based on what people say is it occurs when you run too rich of a mixture. If you are conservative about adding it sounds like this won't be a problem. It also raises EGT's by my research 50-100 degrees. My conclusion on this is if you watch that, you are probably ok.

Propane has 35% less BTU's than diesel which is a pretty close correlation to mpg. When you are using it, it is replacing diesel. So in order to break even propane has to cost 35% less. However if it is in fact a catalyst to help burn the unburned diesel wasted out the exhaust you might gain back 5% of that? In gas cars propane has 25% less BTU's but in a carb car you only loose about 10% because propane is a better mix with air. Obviously a diesel is going to have a better air mix than a carb car, but propane is a gas so it should mix better than an injected diesel. It would seem to me you are gaining a little bit there also, 5% again? That is another shot in the dark guess. 35% less is a for sure but add back 5-10% for being a catalyst and a better mixture with air and now you at a price point of needing to be 25% less than diesel to break even.

Finally the biggest anti propane people say, "it's not worth it because propane is almost as expensive as diesel." I think that depends on where you live. I'm looking at propane because where I live diesel is currently $3.79 a gallon and propane is $1.89 a gallon. I think propane isn't near as popular as it used to be because most places around the country the price of propane vs price of diesel doesn't make it worth it. To me that makes it worth it. Any thoughts?
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Well I do know that Ford offers or planned on offering ( I am not sure) their 6.7 with a propane tank to help improve mileage and over all range of the truck. The fact that I currently cant find any information on this being available leads me to believe that the project was most likely a failure. Perhaps it caused to many problems? or perhaps there was a lack of interest from the consumer. I am not sure, but I would be lead to believe that propane would likely be not as beneficial for many people as they would hope.
Oh and also I do know that the original diesel engine created by Rudolf Diesel was designed to burn veggie oil and could burn something like 20 different types of fuel! I just thought that was really cool and wanted to share!
You see first off our 12v diesels are only like 30-35% efficient. On the 24v they are 32-37% efficient at stock levels. The rest is wasted heat energy out the turbo. If you want better fuel economy why not throw water/meth on the truck. Its cheaper. Even water can be efficient and that for some people is free.
You see first off our 12v diesels are only like 30-35% efficient. On the 24v they are 32-37% efficient at stock levels. The rest is wasted heat energy out the turbo. If you want better fuel economy why not throw water/meth on the truck. Its cheaper. Even water can be efficient and that for some people is free.
Can you elaborate on that. How can something that gets 20mpg moving 7500lbs be 30% efficient?:confused013:
Internal combustion as a whole, is inefficient. Most of the power generated(heat) goes out the tailpipe, or gets radiated off. Figure out how to recover and use that, then you'll have a big jump in fuel mileage.
Thanks droth. Why dont you wrap your exhaust manifold and put a cover over your turbo hot side and see if you dont get better rpm pickup. Its lost heat energy. Thats why they use egr these days to try to recover some of that lost heat energy.
Thanks droth. Why dont you wrap your exhaust manifold and put a cover over your turbo hot side and see if you dont get better rpm pickup. Its lost heat energy. Thats why they use egr these days to try to recover some of that lost heat energy.
That's not why they use egr... Just remember this simple rule. If it's EPA related, it doesn't improve mpg.
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Internal combustion as a whole, is inefficient. Most of the power generated(heat) goes out the tailpipe, or gets radiated off. Figure out how to recover and use that, then you'll have a big jump in fuel mileage.
Hence a turbo? I remember reading somewhere a 2 stroke diesel is the most efficient engine in the world and that's why they use them in ships. I'm not sure if that's true or not. That would make me think a 4 stroke diesel would be up there with is.
I never said its to help with fuel economy. It was to reduce nox and a few other things. Thats why they say if you increase timing it can increase nox.
You see first off our 12v diesels are only like 30-35% efficient. The rest is wasted heat energy out the turbo. If you want better fuel economy why not throw water/meth on the truck. Its cheaper. Even water can be efficient and that for some people is free.
This is true but there's a difference between thermal efficiency of an engine and complete combustion of the diesel. That just means 65-70% of the diesel being burned is being wasted from heat, mostly out of the exhaust, rather than turning the crank (we won't go into driveline loss). Combustion efficiency is just rating how much of that diesel is being completely combusted. Black smoke is the most obvious sign of incomplete combustion. Propane helps more of the diesel fully combust. Auto makers have been working for many years on how to recapture some of that wasted heat out the exhaust through supplemental steam engines (BMW), stirling engines, and thermal electric generators with very little sucess. It's still an interesting concept though if they can ever figure out a good system for it. I'm going off memory here but I believe Tesla's electric motor is about 90% thermally efficient. If we can ever figure out a way to store electricity for the electric motors cheaply, efficiently, and quickly refillable that is the holly grail!

In the meantime propane is a good aftermarket add on. I appreciate the info about ford experimenting with it. I didn't not realize that and adds to the fact I think it's safer for diesels to run with it. To the person asking me why not run water meth......Why not run both? There's no reason you can't and they will compliment each other well. That's my plan anyway. Propane to help mileage and power, water/meth to keep EGT's down. I think that's a good combination and I'd prefer that over some other methods of cranking up the power in 12 valves.
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