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Discussion Starter #1
So I was thinking of upgrading to a 5gen 2500 from my 4th gen 3500.

Found a truck I liked - payload on sticker barely over 1900 lbs !!!

WTF?!? Family of 4 in the cab, 5th wheel hitch in the bed, and I'd be down to a measly 1,000lbs payload, lol.

What's the point of putting Cummins in these 3/4s???

P.S. Looked at a 2500 Denali, payload over 3,000lbs...
 

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Usually the Cummins trades towing capacity for payload. The Hemi is less towing capacity but more payload from what I have seen.

Get rid of your family or stop screwing around and get a 5th Gen 3500..why are you trading down?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited by Moderator)
Get rid of your family or stop screwing around and get a 5th Gen 3500..why are you trading down?
Both are good options 😁

Sold my 5th wheel, so I was looking for a bit of a softer ride, while still staying with Cummins.
Sadly, I probably will be going with the GMC, that payload is off the charts and the ride was very nice. Interior sux, but what are you gonna do?

It just blew my mind that Ram had the audacity to call it "heavy duty", yet the payload can't even reach 2,000lbs...
 

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So I was thinking of upgrading to a 5gen 2500 from my 4th gen 3500.

Found a truck I liked - payload on sticker barely over 1900 lbs !!!

WTF?!? Family of 4 in the cab, 5th wheel hitch in the bed, and I'd be down to a measly 1,000lbs payload, lol.

What's the point of putting Cummins in these 3/4s???

P.S. Looked at a 2500 Denali, payload over 3,000lbs...
Yeah the GM's have much more payload. And now that the GM tows more than the Ram, it's not a comparison in this category. My 2020 GMC 2500 only has 400 lbs less payload than my 2019 Ram 3500.
 
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Yeah the GM's have much more payload. And now that the GM tows more than the Ram, it's not a comparison in this category. My 2020 GMC 2500 only has 400 lbs less payload than my 2019 Ram 3500.
GM's tow numbers are up by 900 by GM's best numbers (and the second link, only 400), and GMC/Chevy have demonstrated that what they advertise isn't trustworthy when they tried to argue that they were the most reliable manufacturer (including over Honda and Toyota) because they won more (meaningless) J.D. Power Initial Quality awards.
GM's best payload for an HD truck is 7,442 lbs, Ram's is 7,680 lbs.

Those numbers also change depending on what page you're looking at.
913974

913975

Both are good options 😁

Sold my 5th wheel, so I was looking for a bit of a softer ride, while still staying with Cummins.
Sadly, I probably will be going with the GMC, that payload is off the charts and the ride was very nice. Interior sux, but what are you gonna do?

It just blew my mind that Ram had the audacity to call it "heavy duty", yet the payload can't even reach 2,000lbs
Ram artificially limits the payloads on the 2500 to fit it into class 2B, same as GMC/Chevy and Ford do with their 3/4 ton pickups. That said, there's only 1 legal way to improve payload on a class 2B truck that's at the GVWR limit, and that's to make the truck lighter. Unless you're cutting out crap electronics (GMC isn't, neither are Ford or Ram, legalities is a *****), you're using either lighter material for everything or less material where it counts. GMC ain't doing that first one.
 

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GM's tow numbers are up by 900 by GM's best numbers (and the second link, only 400), and GMC/Chevy have demonstrated that what they advertise isn't trustworthy when they tried to argue that they were the most reliable manufacturer (including over Honda and Toyota) because they won more (meaningless) J.D. Power Initial Quality awards.
GM's best payload for an HD truck is 7,442 lbs, Ram's is 7,680 lbs.

Those numbers also change depending on what page you're looking at.


Ram artificially limits the payloads on the 2500 to fit it into class 2B, same as GMC/Chevy and Ford do with their 3/4 ton pickups. That said, there's only 1 legal way to improve payload on a class 2B truck that's at the GVWR limit, and that's to make the truck lighter. Unless you're cutting out crap electronics (GMC isn't, neither are Ford or Ram, legalities is a *), you're using either lighter material for everything or less material where it counts. GMC ain't doing that first one.
I’m not an engineer on either platform so I’m not going to speculate on building materials, etc etc. For years GM was stuck at 22 or 23k towing. Now they are not. Why Ram has such a low payload for their 2500 I can’t tell you because I don’t work for them. I just know they do.
 

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Ram limits the payload to 10,000 lbs. and the truck weighs 8,100, so there is your 1,900 of payload. However look at the door sticker and add up the GVWR of the front and rear axle and it is almost 12,000 lbs.

I was under the impression that 3/4 tons had to be 10k or under legally? either way, the door sticker clearly says it is more capable.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ram artificially limits the payloads on the 2500 to fit it into class 2B, ...
That could well be part of the low payload story.

The thing is (talking about diesel), the 2500 GMC defaults to 11,300 GVWR, with the option of dropping it down to 10K lbs. I have found no way to get the 2500 Ram any other way but at 10,000 GVWR. To me, it tells me that Ram has no confidence their 2500 could do any better than 10K. Towing and payload is what sells HD trucks, and the fact that Ram doesn't offer some sort of "GVWR package" - it doesn't make me feel confident that it's just "artificially limited".

As far as GM quality - I lease a new Chevy for the wifey about every 18 months, never had to use the warranty. So I am quite happy with the general GM quality. Not to mention that GM dealers are a dream to deal with, compared to FCA. I have a thread somewhere on the 4th gen forum about me trying to get an alignment on my Ram under warranty, lol what a $hit show FCA is... and right now I have a small issue with my driver door window - the thought of taking it to the dealer to fix it under warranty doesn't even cross my mind :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
This is nothing new, the Cummins weighs more, always has and it takes away from payload. Pretty simple math.
Weighs more than what? From what I could find, the Cummins is about 200lbs heavier than the Duramax. Hardly makes up for the huge payload difference.

either way, the door sticker clearly says it is more capable.
Huh? It's exactly the door sticker that tells me it's not capable to handle payload over 2000 lbs. One goes by the weakest component, not the strongest. Just because the axles can handle it, it doesn't mean that everything else could.
 

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from what I remember the 10K has to do with regulations that is why they all cap at 10k. Yes you can get the option of 11xxx but you might want to check your insurance rates it might put you into commercial insurance/private use which is costly.
I run all commercial insurance anyway so I do not worry about the up charge.
 
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Weighs more than what? From what I could find, the Cummins is about 200lbs heavier than the Duramax. Hardly makes up for the huge payload difference.
913979


5500 front
6390 rear

11890 total gvwr
But is limited to 10k for reasons listed above.
 
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double post.
 

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Huh? It's exactly the door sticker that tells me it's not capable to handle payload over 2000 lbs. One goes by the weakest component, not the strongest. Just because the axles can handle it, it doesn't mean that everything else could.

What about the truck is different than the 3500?

What would you determine the weakest link? If you want the GM, get the GM, you don’t need to make up some odd argument to get it. We won’t look for you and run you down in the street.
 

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That could well be part of the low payload story.

The thing is (talking about diesel), the 2500 GMC defaults to 11,300 GVWR, with the option of dropping it down to 10K lbs. I have found no way to get the 2500 Ram any other way but at 10,000 GVWR. To me, it tells me that Ram has no confidence their 2500 could do any better than 10K. Towing and payload is what sells HD trucks, and the fact that Ram doesn't offer some sort of "GVWR package" - it doesn't make me feel confident that it's just "artificially limited".

As far as GM quality - I lease a new Chevy for the wifey about every 18 months, never had to use the warranty. So I am quite happy with the general GM quality. Not to mention that GM dealers are a dream to deal with, compared to FCA. I have a thread somewhere on the 4th gen forum about me trying to get an alignment on my Ram under warranty, lol what a $hit show FCA is... and right now I have a small issue with my driver door window - the thought of taking it to the dealer to fix it under warranty doesn't even cross my mind :)
You realize the 2500 ram is basically a 3500 with coils right.....

It’s 10k for legal reasons. Payload means piss all of both trucks are limited to 10k. Around me, anything over 10k gvwr requires safety inspection yearly. That’s why they make it lower. You can register a vehicle lower than the gvwr rating. But the safety inspections goes off the rated gvwr not what it’s plated for.
 

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You realize the 2500 ram is basically a 3500 with coils right.....

It’s 10k for legal reasons. Payload means piss all of both trucks are limited to 10k. Around me, anything over 10k gvwr requires safety inspection yearly. That’s why they make it lower. You can register a vehicle lower than the gvwr rating. But the safety inspections goes off the rated gvwr not what it’s plated for.
Don’t start using common sense around here.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
from what I remember the 10K has to do with regulations that is why they all cap at 10k. Yes you can get the option of 11xxx but you might want to check your insurance rates it might put you into commercial insurance/private use which is costly.
I run all commercial insurance anyway so I do not worry about the up charge.
Again, they don't all cap at 10K, only Ram does, and there must be an actual (technical) reason why. The 10K is not a regulation, per se, but some states will make you pay more for it or require special DL class to drive it. No such nonsense in my state, so I'm good on that front.

What about the truck is different than the 3500?
You realize the 2500 ram is basically a 3500 with coils right.....
And yet again, if this is true, why not give those of us, who don't pay extra for driving over 10K, the option to get the 11,000/11,800 GVWR of the 3500 on the 2500?!? There is no law that says 3/4 trucks should cap at 10K GVWR. GMC gives me 3 GVWR options to choose (no charge, no change to equipment), Ram is 10K or nothing. What, Ram doesn't want to sell trucks?


What would you determine the weakest link? If you want the GM, get the GM, you don’t need to make up some odd argument to get it. We won’t look for you and run you down in the street.
Lol, this is not about what I'm buying, I already said I was going with the GMC, there is simply no other option. I couldn't live down the embarrassment of driving a 6.7 Cummins with 1,900 lbs payload 😁 Can you imagine telling someone that your truck can tow 30,000+ lbs, but you can't actually hook up anything heavier than 8,000 lbs?
 

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As far as GM quality - I lease a new Chevy for the wifey about every 18 months, never had to use the warranty.
That’s not impressive.

Back in the day....a friggggggin’ YUGO could generally make it 18 months before it began the imploding process.
 

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Again, they don't all cap at 10K, only Ram does, and there must be an actual (technical) reason why. The 10K is not a regulation, per se, but some states will make you pay more for it or require special DL class to drive it. No such nonsense in my state, so I'm good on that front.




And yet again, if this is true, why not give those of us, who don't pay extra for driving over 10K, the option to get the 11,000/11,800 GVWR of the 3500 on the 2500?!? There is no law that says 3/4 trucks should cap at 10K GVWR. GMC gives me 3 GVWR options to choose (no charge, no change to equipment), Ram is 10K or nothing. What, Ram doesn't want to sell trucks?




Lol, this is not about what I'm buying, I already said I was going with the GMC, there is simply no other option. I couldn't live down the embarrassment of driving a 6.7 Cummins with 1,900 lbs payload Can you imagine telling someone that your truck can tow 30,000+ lbs, but you can't actually hook up anything heavier than 8,000 lbs?
I told you why but you erased it when you quoted me. So has many others. So ignore it. So what you will. It’s one of the reasons I went with a 2500 instead of a 3500. I didn’t want the hassle and don’t tow enough to care about the paperwork. It’s the same truck. Just because you can’t comprehend it, doesn’t make it wrong.

The embarrassment of a more capable truck that has a smaller number on paper is better then coming out to your parents.

With my skid steer in tow, I scale out min 28,400lbs with just the bucket. And my truck will be around 11,500. Now I know and understand the capabilities. If you don’t and you need someone to tell you it’s ok, that’s fine. Buy the gm. No one is saying don’t buy the gm. But if your gonna make up reasons why it’s better at least quote YouTube too.
 
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