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Discussion Starter #1
I went to start my truck yesterday morning and when I got in, turned the key, I got my pillar gauges to light up no problem, turned the key, no crank, no click, no nothing. I checked it out later and I have full power to my lights (headlights and KCs), dash lights work, dome light works. I have two Optima yellow tops that I bought back in December, they aren't dead. I have power, but I have no click or anything when I turn the key. I swapped the blower motor relay for the starter relay, nothing. Turned on the blower motor and it was still working just fine. Both relays are good. Even put in a brand new spare, still nothing. I was thinking about it and my shut off solenoid isn't even pulling up.
I drove the truck about 80 miles from a Taco Bell to my house (long trips make me hungry) and had no issues. Next morning, dead in the water.
With my truck being custom, I have some custom wiring. Here's how things are hooked up:
Shut off solenoid is wired into starter. When the starter gets power, my shut off solenoid pulls up. So, that kind of explains why it isn't sucking up, but it's also an indicator that power isn't getting to my starter. I'm also not getting the starter relay to click (again, swapped with known good relays). I was thinking maybe a bad fuse (can't find one bad) or maybe the ignition cylinder is bad (when I had my dash lights on, I noticed that the lights on the door switch turn off when I turn the key, so I'm convinced that the cylinder is still good).
I think I'm not getting power to my relay, but I don't know what would suddenly cause this? I started it up at Taco Bell when I left the drive thru and had no issues. Get home and nothing. :banghead:
Sorry for the giant post, just want to be thorough. Does anyone have any ideas?
 

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Smokeycummer
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Try jumpin the starter , that will rule out it being crapped out on you and being a dead short , I would take a look at neutral safety switch also I don't have a manual trans so not sure where that is on yours .
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'll trying jumping the starter tonight, although I'm not a big fan of sparks and electricity... I get kinda jumpy myself haha
Also, I don't have a neutral safety switch. Since I did the conversion myself I left it off. The truck doesn't acknowledge that one should exist.
Thank you for the suggestions!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I finally got under it and tried to jump the starter with a screwdriver: nothing much happened. There was a little bit of a spark, but nothing else. I did not have the keys in the ignition, but I don't think I would need to, right?
Anyway, I'm assuming starter, since there was a little spark, but nothing else.
 

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Smokeycummer
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Good thing is you can rebuild them with a 20 dollar kit , make sure your wires are tight down there and that the starter is not comin apart , I was havin probs last winter and it ended up being a couple loose bolts on the starter case , tightened them up all good now .
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'll double check my wires and bolts in the morning. The good thing is that it's still under warranty and I have a good relationship with the parts store it's from. This is literally the 3rd one that's been on my truck this year. I had one for almost two years and a tooth broke off (due to operator error) in January. The second one didn't disengage when the truck started and burned up by the time I got home. And this one was fine until, well, Sunday haha. I think the only reason I'll stick with their starter is because I know I won't have to shell out two Benjamins for a new one.
In the future, if I decide to get a starter from another manufacturer, does anyone have a recommendation?
 

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Smokeycummer
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I've always herd to use oe starters but they are pretty pricey , I've had mine for three yrs now from advanced auto with pretty much no issues other then the case bolts comin loose .
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Haha, that's funny you mention Advance cause that's where mine have been from. I didn't want to mention them cause I do like a lot of their parts. For some reason I haven't had a whole lot of luck with their electrical parts lately. I appreciate it, and I'll reply back when I get it all fixed so that someone else knows what's up with their truck too!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Turns out it isn't the starter. I just swapped a new one in. I know for a fact everything is tight now. It seems like the old one was going out the door anyway, cause it sounded awful when we tested it. Now I'm out of ideas. I checked the #11 ignition fuse inside the dash and it was good. Swapped it with another just in case and still no luck.
So, relays are good, starter is good, dash fuse is good. Is there a fuse in the engine fuse block I'm missing? Also, I'm pretty sure it isn't the lock cylinder, I turned on my radio and turned the key and my radio shut off like it usually does.
What else could I be missing?
 

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Didn't really sound like the starter to me. If you say your FSS solenoid isn't pulling then the signal isn't even getting to the starter. From my understanding it's a pretty simple system. You have:
Ignition switch
clutch pedal position switch (manual)
park/neutral switch (auto)
starter relay
starter

You say you don't left out the neutral safety switch when you did your conversion. Was the truck originally an auto? Do you have the clutch position switch?
Maybe these will help.

 

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Discussion Starter #11
My truck was originally an auto. There should be no form of neutral safety on it. I'm not 100% positive of that since I still have an automatic steering column. I did just run out and try to move the auto shifter around and see if maybe that was causing it. Still nothing though. I shouldn't have swapped out the starter. I completely spaced that my relay isn't even clicking, so there isn't power down there for some reason. If I turn my key and my radio turns off to divert power to the starter, then why isn't my relay clicking on?
I'm not entirely sure how to read those diagrams. My electrical diagram knowledge sucks. It looks like the relay clicks on then sends info to the PCM, then to the starter, correct? Either way, I still have no relay click. Kinda lost :confused013:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, I kind of feel like an idiot and kind of not. I found the problem: 30 amp starter solenoid fuse in the engine fuse block. I must have overlooked it the other night. Anyway, I think the solenoid on the starter may have been bad and caused it to blow the fuse. I completely forgot that I had almost this exact same issue back in January. I bought a new starter, put it on, then hunted wires for 2 days before realizing that fuse was blown.
So if your truck won't click and crank, don't forget about that little 30 amp fuse when you start your problem hunt.
Thanks for helping me out, guys! I love all of the help this forum has to offer!
 

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Smokeycummer
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Glad ya figured it out man , can't believe I didn't think of that either , def alota good stuff on here .
 

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Glad you got her up and running. I'm not great at reading those diagrams either, but I've had to learn since doing my swap. I'm in the middle of making a custom "98 12v" harness right now from my 96 12v and 98 v10 harnesses. More than a little nerve racking to take a harness and cut through every single wire haha.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Blue Oval- I completely understand! When we built my truck we ended up having an electrical engineer help us get the wiring for the transmission going. We actualy swapped a 98 12 valve dash and wiring for my 01 dash and wiring and left the 01 engine fuse block. The wiring coming going to the engine and trans were also from a 98 12 valve, but we found out that a manual trans truck doesn't have the same trans wiring as an auto truck. Since, at the time, we had a 47re, we had to take the auto wiring from my 01 engine harness and splice it into the proper wiring for the 98 harness. After that we found out that there are a couple of wires that are swapped positive/negative between 98 and 01. My brights indicator on the dash still doesn't work after 2 years of driving haha. But yeah, it was a major PIA. If you need some good wiring info, look into all-data. You have to pay for a year subscription, but without it we never would have got her going. Good luck!
Smokes when she drinks- yeah, after I swapped that starter and it didn't go I was pretty ticked. It's always the small solutions we miss!
 

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I just used the V10 harness and spliced on the connectors I needed from the 12v harness. Wired up the FSS manually. After I cut all the connectors off I got the bright idea of using the 12v harness and just swapping the end for the fuse box and whatever other changes were made.

I made the cuts and started soldering it up this past Sunday. I'm not too confident in my soldering skills though so I ordered some uninsullated butt connectors and borrowed a good ratcheting crimper from work.
Hopefully by next week I'll know if it works... or should I say hopefully it works.

A year and a half later I don't even remember how the harness was routed across the engine!

You had to swap the dash and wiring? I thought the gauges and all that for the 98+ trucks were pretty much the same?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
We didn't have to swap out the dash. My dad and I found this guy about an hour away who buys and sells wrecked ones from the insurance auctions. He had a 98 12 valve that had had a manual trans in it. The dash was perfect. Mine, eh, not so much. I took mine out in pieces. Actually, now that I think about it, we did spend an entire night removing the wiring from my 01 dash and putting it inside of the 98 dash. Kinda forgot about that.
I really don't know how I remember all of this stuff haha. Probably because I lived and breathed it for about two months before I started college. I should have a write up either on here or if you're interested.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Update: same 30amp fuse blew twice in a row this morning. I removed the wire for the fuel shut off solenoid and no issues.
I have two plans: replace the 30 amp fuse with a 35 or 40 amp fuse, or run a relay to the same wire on the starter and use the relay to power the "suck up" function of the solenoid.
Question, would the relay just cause the same problem and keep blowing the 30 amp fuse? And would it be an awful idea to swap it for a 35 or 40 amp fuse?
It still puzzles me as to why this is just now an issue. The truck has ran in this configuration for over a year with no issues (I originally had the FSO solenoid on a push button switch, that got old real fast) so I don't know why it would just now be overdrawing amperage. I'll ghetto drive it (turn on key, open hood, pull up FSO, shut hood, start truck) until I find a reliable way to run it. $4 a fuse can get expensive fast.
 

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Sounds like a short somewhere. The FSS shouldn't be pulling power from the starter relay output. The FSS relay should be getting constant power through either a fusible link (94-97) or it's own fuse (98) which would be fuse 9. The starter relay circuit is only used to trigger the FSS relay which should take minimal power.

I personally wouldn't run an oversized fuse. That's just a bandaid on a bigger problem. The wiring (amongst other things) on these trucks was barely adequate to begin with. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Again, custom truck, so my FSS doesn't have a working relay. For some reason, the wiring for the relay didn't work. We swapped with several known working relays but could never get it to work. We never fully investigate the problem, just ran it to a push button switch in the cab. When I removed the switch, I ran the wire down to the small wire on the starter solenoid so that when the starter was cranking the FSS was sucking up. Never had an issue until now. I'll double check and see if maybe I can get the original relay set up going. Thanks!
 
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