[mickri]

I have a 94 dodge. This is my daily driver. The water in fuel sensor was leaking so I replaced it. I thought that I had the fuel filter filled with diesel because I was getting fuel out of the bolt on the side of the pump. Turns out the fuel filter was not full and all I accomplished was to pump all of the remaining fuel out of the pump. Me bad what can I say.

So I go through all of the steps to bleed the system. The fuel filter is full and with the bolt cracked on the side of the pump I get lots of fuel coming out. But no fuel is coming out of the injection pump. I have cranked the engine over for close to 10 minutes in 30 second to one minute stints. Still no fuel coming out of the pump.

The fuel shut off is working. Both when I crank the engine and if I push it up.

I have read a bunch of the threads on this forum and others and watched videos on bleeding the fuel system. I can't figure out what else I can do other than to keep cranking the engine over.

 

[9297oldram]

Are you using the bleeder on top of the filter housing to bleed the filter?

What bolt on the side of the IP are you talking about, the banjo that is for the supply fuel line?

Tie up the FSS and leave it until you get it running.

Crack open all the injector nuts and then crank the engine over. As each injectors starts fueling tight the nuts on each that are fueling. Be careful not to overheat the starter.

 

[GAmes]

Are you saying this is the first time you have changed the filter? How long have you had the pickup? Have you read Joe G's description on how the system works? Joe G's fuel system writeup

 

[mickri]

I have owned the truck for almost 8 years and have changed the fuel filter several times in the past with no problems. I have read Joe G's fuel system writeup. In the past I bled the fuel filter with the bleeder on the top of the fuel filter housing. Then I crack the bolt on the banjo and pump the lift pump till I get fuel coming out. Then crank the engine and it starts. I am pretty familiar with diesels. My sailboat has a diesel engine and I lived aboard for 11 years. I was gone out the country for 7 years cruising. Did all of my own engine maintenance including a complete tear down and rebuilt of the injection pump on that engine. A perkins 4108.

I screwed up this time by starting at the banjo bolt and pumping the lift pump until fuel came out. The engine started and then stopped. I cracked the nuts on the injectors and had fuel coming out of the 1,2 & 4 injectors. Tightened those and then had fuel coming out of 6. No fuel ever came out of 3 & 5. Cranked the engine but it wouldn't start. I cranked it a lot. I then cracked the 1 nut on the injection pump. No fuel coming out. Cracked the rest of the nuts on the injection pump. No fuel coming out. I went back to square one and pulled the fuel filter. Only had a little fuel in the bottom. What I now realize is that the fuel I saw coming out of the banjo bolt was the fuel in the line from the filter to the banjo. Filled the fuel filter and then bled it with the bleeder nut. Then cracked the banjo bolt and bled it until fuel came out. Cranked the engine and no fuel came out of the injector pump. I then checked the FSS. It energized with the key on and would hold the lever in the up position when I lifted it by hand. Next I turned the key off and then turned it back on and briefly cranked the engine. With the key still on I checked the lever. It was all the way up. I then cranked the engine for close to 10 minutes. During this cranking I cracked the banjo bolt to see if fuel was coming out and had lots of fuel coming out. But still no fuel from the injection pump.

If I take the banjo bolt out can I see if the fuel shut off is moving when I move the lever?

This truck is my only vehicle and I drive it every couple of days. It always starts. Barely have to hit the starter and it starts. I am embarrassed about my initial screw up on bleeding the system. Currently charging the batteries. They will be fully charged later today and I will give it another go to see if it starts. I will tie the FSS up to see if that helps.

Thanks for you suggestions.

 

[9297oldram]

With the FSS tied up and manually pumping the LP do you hear the OFV squealing when the pressure gets built up in the IP?

 

[mickri]

I will listen for that. My hearing is not the best. I have tinnitus with constant ringing in my right ear. I tried cracking the OFV but no fuel came out. Hard to get a wrench on that bolt. Still waiting for the batteries to be fully charged.

 

[GAmes]

To start, loosening the banjo bolt isn't a necessary step when the filter is changed. Crack the bleed bolt, pump the air out of the filter using the manual plunger, tighten the bleeder, a couple more pumps on the manual plunger.

You can determine if the shutoff valve is moving inside the IP by looking at the rod that sticks out about 3/4 inch on the engine side of the IP. It isn't a common occurance but the woodruff key that connects the FSS lever to the rod has been known to shear. If you can see the rod rotate on the top of the IP when you move the FSS up and down it is good. If it is sheared I have read that the keys are only available in quantity so someone who has had to replace theirs probably has a bunch of them. The size has been posted a couple times.

If you have never replaced the rubber lines in the system I would venture the time has come to replace them.

 

[mickri]

While waiting for the 2nd battery to come up to full charge I pumped the lift pump After 10 or so pumps I heard a squeaking sound. Sounds like the squeak is coming from the lift pump. Is this where I should hear the squeak?

 

[GAmes]

The squeak comes from the OFV. Sounds like a wet fart. not that I'd know, LOL.

 

[91 diesel]

Another possibility (because I had this happen to me 2 years ago....) is that your lift pump went out. I changed my fuel filter, filled it up and went to crank the truck and it wouldn't start. There were no leaks, vacuum or otherwise. My fuel pressure gauge showed 25-30psi before changing the filter with no issues driving. After running through everything, a friend of a friend that runs a garage mentioned that he had a 12v cummins lift pump 'go out' during a filter change one time before. I had 287k on the truck then and thought 'what the hell, why not'. Well, wouldn't you know, a new lift pump put on and the the truck fired right up (basically...). So if you think you're doing everything correctly, no leaks, and you're over 250k on your lift pump, you might want to change it out. My only explanation for it is that when the system lost it's prime, the failing check valves in the lift pump came to life. Looking at the original lift pump, that seemed to be the only problem - two of the check valves weren't very checky! Priming using the plunger was unaffected and I could prime until the cows came home and it still wouldn't start/run until I changed the lift pump.

 

[mickri]

I wondered about the lift pump. Thanks for the suggestion. They are not expensive. I have also thought about going to an electric pump. But I have to get my truck running. It is my only vehicle. If I crack the banjo bolt on the injection pump and crank the engine I get fuel coming out at the banjo bolt. I don't think that would happen if the lift pump was faulty.

Batteries finally came up to full charge late this afternoon. I will be back at it tomorrow morning.

 

[mickri]

Still no success this morning. I am focusing on the FSS. Specifically the shaft that comes out of the pump. I can not tell if it is moving when I raised the lever. (wrong term??) Will I cause myself more problems if I remove the FSS so I can get a better look at whether the shaft is moving when the lever is raised. Looks pretty simple to remove the FSS.

 

[9297oldram]

A electric LP is a bad choice the Factory mechanical will outlast any electric one.

Just remove the FSS then putt the arm up and tie it, if you tried starting to much and the arm wasn't pulling all the way up you might have to bleed the injectors again.

 

[mickri]

As best as I can tell the FSS is moving the lever all the way up. When I do it by hand after pushing the lever up part way it goes the rest of the way by itself with a load click when it is sucked up into the FSS.

 

[GAmes]

I can understand the difficulty of seeing the shaft move. I think you can clean it with a couple shots of brake or electrical cleaner, then mark it with a sharpie held with a pair of pliers. With a mark on it you can see it move. It only moves about 1/4th turn.

 

[GAmes]

I found a possible source for a woodruff key if yours is sheared. Post #4 Fuel Shutdown solenoid problems

 

[91 diesel]

x2 on sticking with the factory style lift pump. You only have to change them out every 250-280k miles. I haven't heard of anyone getting that kind of maintenance free life out of an electric lift pump.

 

[91 diesel]

GAmes, any idea what would cause that woodruff key to shear? I assume it's not very common but sounds like a good thing to keep around 'in case'.

 

[GAmes]

Perhaps pushing the lever out of the way to remove the cover of the gov springs? Or removing the lever to do the springs and not realize there is a tiny little key in there, which is probably more likely. A lot of speculation with no real answer.

 

[mickri]

I had no success with removing the FFS and tying the lever up. Decided to go back to square one starting with bleeding the fuel filter. After 50 or more pumps no fuel came out. Made a dipstick out of a piece of wire to check the fuel level in the filter. Fuel was down about 2 1/2" from the top of the housing. Did another 50 pumps with little or no change. Did another 50 and still no change. Looks like the lift pump has failed from all of the pumping I have done.

I am going to order a lift pump probably from Ebay. Price ranges from $25 to $150 plus. Genuine Cummins are $50 plus or minus. O'Reilly's has one in stock at my local store for $160. I don't think that I need it that bad. This seller is located fairly close to me, Probably a Chinese copy. Would get it next week. Fuel Lift Pump For Dodge RAM 5.9 Cummins 5.9L Diesel 12V B5.9 W/ Gaskets 94-98 | eBay

Or I may pay the extra $$ for genuine Cummins. Have to see who has the fastest shipping.

I really appreciate everyone's help and suggestions.