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Making a better tow rig

5K views 26 replies 11 participants last post by  WILLD420 
#1 ·
Ok guys, would love some opinions on my next steps. I am new here, so please let me know if this is wrong section or how better to ask questions.

You can see my rig in my signature. I am running stock injectors/turbo and mostly stock everything else except the upgraded 47re (ATS stage 2) which at least thus far has been great.

I am looking mostly for reliable towing a decently heavy 10k bumper pull toy hauler up around CO passes so at elevations 7-11k feet. Right now it feels like I need a little more hp as I am having to downshift and reduce speed to 30ish mph while on continued 6-7% grades in order to control egts. (will get over 1200 then I back off), trans and coolant temps have been fine.

My question is what would be my next steps. I have considered an edge ez, but am not sure that would really help all that much with egts. I have also considered a tuner that taps the wire like a quad adrenaline which would provide more options on specific fuel/canbus tunes. I am getting max 25 psi boost from my turnbuckled hy35, (also have boost fooler installed) have checked for boost leaks and found a tiny pinhole in the intake boot that I will be replacing. No other leaks.

The truck runs great and I think the stock injectors are fine- if I don't have to, don't really want to replace. I know the hy is a small turbo- would it be worth changing that out? what else should I be considering?

Thanks all for any advice for a noob
 
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#2 ·
I would consider putting in slightly larger injectors, paired with a quadzilla adrenaline at a minimum. But for towing especially at elevation I would highly recommend going with a set of compounds to help with better spooling, and help burn the fuel better which in turn will cool egts.


2002 Ram 3500 Quad Cab Laramie Slt Plus, Nv5600 4x4, SuperStick Transmissions Nv5600, Dana 60 front, Dana 80 rear, 4.10 diff ratio, Quadzilla Adrenaline V2 iquad bt, Beans Diesel sump, Airdog II 4g 165, ARP 2000’s (425’s), Heavy duty pushrods, 110lb valve springs, 7x0011 sac injectors (175’s), reman H.O. VP44, Bd Diesel Stealth Cover, Crazy Carl’s Compound Piping Kit, Holset HX35W with (Ported wastegate), BorgWarner s464 1.10 a/r, Afe Proguard cold air intake, CFM+ intake manifold, Fluiddamper, Valair Street dual disk organic clutch, 285/75/16 all around, 2in spacers in rear, Mbrp turbo back 5in down-pipe to 5in exhaust with 7in tip, Genos Garage Britebox, Sport converted headlights.
 
#3 · (Edited)
One thing leads to another, that's what it's all about.
You have to do a tuner and if you go bigger on the turbo you'll have to get bigger injectors, or should! I don't tow but run a Smarty S03, RV275 injectors and a HX35 Hybrid with a 60mm compressor wheel and it pulls pretty hard for minimum dollars. I would diffidently get the quad adrenaline and go from there. 220k is a lot on stock injectors. I'm not really suggesting what I have for turbo and injectors but it's just an example, you may require more power.
 
#4 ·
Yeah, I can see this being a rabbit hole.

Ok, made a somewhat tentative plan, please feel free to tweak, or share thoughts.

DAP 150hp 7X0.010 VCO injectors- new bodies
ARP Head Studs
Quadzilla Adrenaline
BW S362SXE with wastegated .7) A/R T3 68mm housing
Quad Adrenaline

Thank you, it is great to be able to bounce ideas off people much more knowledgeable than myself.
 
#5 ·
You’ll definitely want to talk to Jkidd about what mods for your power and getting a package deal on it all. I’m sure he will be in here soon but he’s the man with all the plans. He recommended me pretty much that exact setup for a fun daily that tows 10k or under so you’re on the right track, only thing that may change things is due to your elevation whereas I’m at sea level.
 
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#8 ·
As you mentioned reliable tow rig, a 550hp turbo doesn't strike me as a good pick. Sxe357 or K27 paired with some quality injectors and Quad. If you wanted to go farther, look into upgrading the cooling system..
 
#11 ·
best option for a single turbo and 500-550HP with towing

DAP 175hp 7X0.0105 VCO injectors-
ARP Head Studs
(pushrods/valvesprings recommended)
Quadzilla Adrenaline IQUAD/IQUADBT
BW S362SXE with wastegated .7) A/R T3 68mm housing

-------------------------
Compounds would be better for 500-550HP with towing about $700 more than singe 62sxe in parts)
DAP 175hp 7X0.0105 VCO injectors-
ARP Head Studs
(pushrods/valvesprings highly recommended)
Quadzilla Adrenaline IQUAD/IQUADBT
stock hx35w + modded wastegate port and s464/83/1.10T6 With Crazy Carl compound set.


---------------------------------------------
450HP //500HP (Borg gxe 57.15mm /76mm compressor wheel is lighter and flows 66lbs/minute)
57/65/12 GXE //57/65/14gxe
125HP injectors
Quadzilla Adrenaline IQUAD/IQUADBT
---------------------------
400HP
57/61/12 custom turbo # 12769880001 (Borg gxe 57.15mm /76mm compressor wheel is lighter and flows 66lbs/minute)
75HP injectors
Quadzilla Adrenaline IQUAD/IQUADBT
------------------------------
375HP
K27 or hx35/40 with modded wastegate port (free)
RV275/40HP injectors or DAP 50HP injectors
Quadzilla Adrenaline IQUAD/IQUADBT
---------------------------------------
350HP
hx35 with modded wastegate port (free)
RV275/40HP injectors or DAP 50HP injectors
Quadzilla Adrenaline IQUAD/IQUADBT
 
#12 ·
Thank you all for your replies, I guess the altitude I plan on running is still a question. Is there any modification of above upgrades due to this- or is it simply- you need more hp to do the same work?
 
#13 ·
Basically in the exact same boat. I have an 02 Cummins with an ATS stage 2 auto, exhaust, and some other minor things but looking at building it up to handle towing our 20 foot flat bed trailer as a back up in case our work trucks go down. Does well at 9,000ft with around 10k lbs but thinking about a new injection pump, upgraded head, turbo, fuel pump, chip, etc... That transmission upgrade helped a lot. Do you have a stock drivetrain? Good luck man, it's fun to start working on these trucks of ours.
 
#14 ·
@jkidd what would be the next turbo up that you would recommend for daily/occasional towing? Say for 600hp. Would it be better to go compound at that point?
 
#15 ·
No one has mentioned the cooling system.

I have a bit of experience here and can honestly tell you that the best results for that weight and that altitude will be close to stock or nearly stock for the reason listed above.

These trucks are only rated at a 13-14k towing capacity, and have a GVWR of 10.5-11k. These trucks make easy power but keeping it reliable and cool is the hard part.

If you plan to keep this a tow rig and nothing else then my suggestion is:
57/65/12 gated
7x.008s
Quadzilla adrenaline (mainly for monitoring and timing)

I would suggest using the quad without wiretap simply due to the fact that timing and canbus along with the injectors will be enough to create problems with coolant temps on a long incline.

That should keep things decently affordable and is about the most you’re going to be able to get away with without having an issue else where.
 
#16 ·
Honestly I'd say upgrade your radiator to mishimoto one, get a coolant bypass kit and upgraded hoses as a start of keep things cool than work from there after you HEADSTUD your truck first or pay the price of blowing a headgasket.
 
#18 ·
Ok- suggestions on radiator upgrade? Or is mishimoto widely regarded as best?


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#19 ·
#23 · (Edited)
Heat dissipation will be mainly based on the area of the radiator available that’s making contact with the air. I definitely think that this as well as the mishimoto equivalent would be great choices but at the end of the day your not gaining a whole lot over stock just due to the small increase in surface area.

The same logic can be applied for aftermarket intercoolers which is why no one ever really speaks of cooler egts with any of the intercoolers on the market. And for the record I have a bd intercooler and I didn’t notice anything over stock other than the fact it didn’t leak. The stock one would still be on the truck if it wasn’t for it turning into a ballon with the compounds.

Great example of trying to keep it simple and going with a “towing” setup and still running into coolant issues is below.


 
#20 ·
Towing will mostly be at 200-300HP and having 600HP on tap makes it fun. If that is your goal then compounds will be MUCH better than a single.
at 600HP its a lot of stress on components and everything including cooling system as mentioned.

towing for 600HP
57mm or 62mm s300 on top and s475/83/1.10 or 1.25// or s475/96/1.15

500HP hx35 and s464/83/1.10 works great.

picking between similar setups will depend on gear ratio, tire size, weight of towing, altitude and transmission among other things.

Have not used the Amazon intercooler you linked. Its probably a decent option. Spend the extra somewhere else or put it towards fuel.
 
#21 ·
Yea I am doing S3 57/65/14 sxe over a 72/85/1.0 on 75HP DDP injectors with tst comp and ts mvp
 
#24 ·
Thanks- great post and link to video.
 
#25 ·
Well,

Just as a follow-up. I decided to go ahead and proceed with my build. ARP headstuds were done first, followed by dap 150 injectors and the Quad Adrenaline install. Also just finished putting in the BW S362sxe with the 68 housing and new 4" turbo back diamond eye stainless exhaust. I am a wannabe mechanic at best, but I managed to complete all this solo and with not too much trouble thanks to this site and a few other youtube vids.

I am brand new to tuning with the quad, so I loaded a couple of tunes off MoparMan's site, basically the economy and the tow tunes. So far super happy with results from them.

I have yet to tow with it, but first impressions overall are WOW!! temps so far have been good, EGTs run between 7-900 getting up to 65-70 and then settle at about 750 on flat running highway. Though it can hit 1200 quick at WOT. Butt Dyno is pretty freakin sweet though. Max boost I have seen so far is 35- but I don't really have anywhere close I can really let her rip living in the middle of a big city. Big difference from my old HY35 though

I also took the radiator out and gave it a thorough cleanse, relocated the breather tube, and put in a new fan clutch as well. I am still unsure if the old one was bad or not- but it was always on, I couldn't stop it with the rubber hose test, and I never heard it engage (never heard the turbo prop) even when I would get over 220 on the gauge pulling a long grade.

Real test will be hooking up the toy hauler here in a couple of weeks and getting over a couple of Colorado passes.

So far I wanted to give a big thanks to those on here that have offered advice and expertise. DAP has been awesome to work with and I highly recommend them. Fred and Jkidd especially.

One more question I have though. I am thinking about re-gearing, I have the dana 70 in the back and 3.54 ratio. I am running 35" Toyo Mt's. I know- its a tall ratio. Thinking about going 4.3. from those of you that have the experience- is this worthwhile? I have been quoted about 2200 to get it done, this is one thing I am not doing myself though as it really is out of my comfort zone.
 
#26 ·
PM me your email I will send you the gear/ speed calculator worksheet.

I went from 4.10 to 3.54 and it was an excellent change for my driving needs. I ran 31" with 4.10 and it was awful, 33" was better, but 33" and 3.54 was great.

Never felt much difference until I would tow 8000lbs, felt like 10,000 with the 3.54 and 33" compared to 4.10 and 12,000lbs felt too heavy. This is at 2000ft or lower and with nv5600.

Tire change is a lot cheaper than re-gear. Maybe you can try a set of 265/75/16 for a test drive to see how it feels. If you really want to keep the 35" for looks then it might be worth it to re-gear.

I waited a couple months and found someone a few hundred miles away. Drove to their place and swapped axles in a couple hours next time i was in that area. He got my dana80 axle with 4.10's and I got Joe Donnely's 3.54 Dana 80
 
#27 ·
I towed with my 2nd gen for years. Went lots of places in Oregon, California, Arizona, Nevada towing our 40' toyhauler. Loaded, it was probably 12K. Pretty light for it's size. Now, it's more of a driver than a tow rig since we brought home a 7.3 with a six speed manual. We routinely traveled through the sierras and high mountains, which led to most of my changes. If I'd stayed in the flatlands all the time, I wouldn't likely have done most of the mods as it did pretty good on the flats.

It's an 02 4x4 shortbed, 6" lift, with the auto and came stock with 3.55's. Just a disclaimer, my build technology is old. I didn't have the resources I have now and my programmer was purchased before other options were readily available with a dash mounted interface. Stock, with an edge programmer, it would hit 1250 egt on the stock setting at the drop of a hat. No idea what the egt's were before I put the guage in but we towed heavy all over with it several times and never had a coolant temp issue. Knowing how to drive and what to expect is a big part of things, along with some luck.

With that said, with regard to your gearing questions, I swapped from the 3.55's and 33's to a 4.10 with a 34" tire (285/75/17) and I like some aspects and hate others. I no longer have the ability to run 80+ mph empty without really hammering the go pedal. I was much happier empty with the 3.55's but I no longer have a lot of the issues with constantly trying to keep the rpm's up so the trans pressures can be high enough to hold the load. Now, the rpm's climb and I just learn to live with the noise and the mpg loss. I also have not used low range to pull a hill or back into a parking spot with the trailer since I did the swap.

Now, onto where the real magic comes in. I didn't see any trans mods listed. This is absolutely critical, along with a turbo upgrade. The difference between my setup and stock, is the difference between making it to the top of the hill and not. Simple as that. Although I did add an HX40 hybrid, an exhaust brake and an ATS intake horn, along with the old style RV 275 injectors, the rest is all stock except the resonator being cut out of the exhaust and a better straight through muffler. None of that added to the ability to tow markedly better except the turbo which reduced the EGT's to acceptable levels, a mandatory mod you've already done.

I have a suncoast converter, mystery build. I bought it rebuilt. It's lower stall than stock and had an upgraded clutch and billet face. It's a piece of garbage for the torque of the Cummins and it stalls way too high, but it's been in there for 60K miles and still holds so it's staying for now. I did a billet input shaft, upgraded clutches, steel planetaries, 4.2 kickdown lever, billet apply stuff, blah, blah etc. I did it myself, but I'm not the average 2 car garage guy. If I can do it, others can too. The valve body is a BD with 1st, and 2nd gear lockup capability added and I have a DTT voltage regulator to keep it out of limp mode. The internal electrics are upgraded with a GM solenoid kit. I run the BD controller that allows an exhaust brake control and full control of the upshift and downshift with their version of tow/haul programming. It's not perfect, but it works. I have the program set so it unlocks the torque converter or downshifts at 1650 rpm. That way, when other people drive my truck, they can't lug it down to the point the clutches slip because the trans doesn't have the pressure to hold it all together.

I tow on the #2 setting of the Edge programmer. With the HX40, I've never had an EGT go higher than 1275 as long as I did my part in keeping the rpms up and keeping the torque converter locked in the right gear for my road speed. The trans controller is the key to all of this. Being able to lock in 1st and 2nd gear are critical, especially with the 3.55 gears but you can't just lock it and hammer down. The trans was never designed to hold everything locked and push 300 hp through it for miles on end, in 110 degree heat at 6-10K ft elevation. The beauty of this system is that I now have complete control over the torque converter and the trans. I can downshift, lock the converter and drive the hill by the egt guage and control the coolant temps by slowing down if I need to.

Before being able to lock 1st and 2nd gear, I had to try to keep it in 3rd as long as possible, then when I downshifted, the torque converter would flare up and my speed would continue to drop until I had to catch 1st. If I didn't catch 1st at high enough speed, there were some hills I had to pull over, unplug the front CAD axle connector and drop into low range to finish the climb. Yes, that sucks but you get to the top... That's why I swapped to the 4.10's. The only real issue is that the trans will build up heat if you are locked in 1st gear and pulling hard for mile after mile but again, with the lockup, I can slow down a few mph and keep the temps under 220 for the most part with only a stock cooler setup.

Sorry for the long post but it's a system of parts that works together and although I love how it finally came together. I have to say that if you don't need an auto, the stick in my 7.3 makes so much difference that it would be worth it if I had to tow a lot, to do a manual swap, even if I had to sacrifice in-town driving comfort.
 
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