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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Gents,
Ive been seaching the forums to see if my logic is right but so far the answer has eluded me

its been my experience that with tuners you deffinatly get more power but pay the price in higher gets

So my logic was add a tuner for more power, and drop in a turbo to take care of the egts, something like the afe bladerunner, super b, or fleece offers a turbo that looks factory but perfoms better.

So my questions are:
--whats the best turbo for a stock motor?
--Will EGTs increase with a smarty? (no point in having more power if you have to back out of the throttle)
-- is a smarty and a "small" turbo a good combo?
--Am I going about this all wrong?

Like most of you I only have so much money to get this done And part of my budget is heading into the tranny to make sure its up to the task so I cant afford to get this wrong. thanks fellas
 

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I've heard just a smarty and a turbo around a 62/65/12-14 size works well. Fleece cheetahs are good turbos but $$$.

Also depends on what you consider to be "high" EGT's.

Will EGT's increase with just a smarty? Any time you add more fuel it's going to make more heat. you just have to find a setting that your stock turbo is happy to live with. luckily the factory holset is a tough little ******* and doesn't mind a little more fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry, thought i had my sig set up, its a 05, 4x4, 5.9, auto, intake, 4" straight exhaust, rebuilt tranny with upgrade clutches, shift kit and tripple disc converter, i consider 1200-1250 pre turbo as the limit.
 

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.

Will EGT's increase with just a smarty? Any time you add more fuel it's going to make more heat. you just have to find a setting that your stock turbo is happy to live with. luckily the factory holset is a tough little ******* and doesn't mind a little more fuel.
Actually when the right timing is added it can lower egt. for example, a smarty Jr on the 100 hp setting will actually be less temps than stock.
 

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Adjusting fuel timing will add power and lower EGT's, but it will increase cylinder temps. The cylinder temps is what melts pistons. Do not rely on a programer to lower your EGT's to a safe level. With stock fueling you can run the EGT's to 1425* sustained while with a programmer you want to keep it under 1350*. This is because the Cylinder temps at those EGT readings are both near the maximum safe level.

Im not bashing the use of a programmer, I just sense that a lot of people are not aware of what's really going on when the timing lowers the EGTs. I personally am looking for a efficient tow vehicle, not a racer. I will be using a custom tuned Smarty S06 UDC with a Fleece Cheetah.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I guess i hadnt thought about cylinder temp, havnt heard it referenced before but it makes alota sence. Sounds like we are trying to build the same truck for the same reasons, i would love to know how your setup works out. When are planning the install? Im in la mesa if you want a hand wrenching
 

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05? go with a Smarty UDC and have a tuner set u up with a custom tune with moderate timing advance over stock and extra fueling in the 1500+ rpm high engine load % range with high TPS input level for faster turbo light off and boost climb.
shoot for a tune that gives max torque at 2000>2200 rpm.

whole secret is getting the turbo light up fast to lower EGTs.

only run a full PAO or ester based real synthetic oil if you're towing hvy 100% of the time on long hard pulls with above 1000d F EGTs. don't forget turbo cool downs before shut down.
make sure the oil jug says PAO ester based. Stands up to the high oil temps of a oil cooled piston and turbo. water cooled turbo is even better.

the marketing hype fake syns such as the Rotella stuff don't cut the heat temp mustard, they break down
 

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I guess i hadnt thought about cylinder temp, havnt heard it referenced before but it makes alota sence. Sounds like we are trying to build the same truck for the same reasons, i would love to know how your setup works out. When are planning the install? Im in la mesa if you want a hand wrenching
Nice, I just moved from La Mesa. Yeah I was surprised the first time I towed a toyhauler up the hwy 8 grade with my truck. EGT's climbed so fast, I had to slow waaay down to 35 mph in some spots keep them in check. I have been doing a bunch of research on ways to make my truck more usable, while still not worrying about smog time. I am waiting on some $$ to perform the upgrade since it will be roughly $3000.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah smog is a mother******, smarty UDC sounds like the way to go. Ive been debating between the jr and sr tho. I might do the smarty, then lift pump (mainly for peace of mind) then turbo. I've been looking for more info on the fleece turbos. I know they have one that appears stock is that the cheetah?
 

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Yeah smog is a mother******, smarty UDC sounds like the way to go. Ive been debating between the jr and sr tho. I might do the smarty, then lift pump (mainly for peace of mind) then turbo. I've been looking for more info on the fleece turbos. I know they have one that appears stock is that the cheetah?
I would go with the Smarty Sr if you're going with a custom UDC tune, it has more parameters that are adjustable. The Fleece Cheetah is a modified stock turbo, so visually the smog tech will have no idea you are packing some heat.....except for the sound, its a screamer.
 

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Subscribing... I'm wanting to see how things work out on both of ya'lls projects. I'm in the same boat, for basically the same reasons.

My truck is my DD, but I also use it to pull my toyhauler out to the desert (approx 8500#). I have a Smarty S-06... last two trips I ran it on Catcher #3 and had decent results but I am constantly watching my EGT gauge on the inclines, and worrying about my tranny at the same time. I've found just turning off the OD to kick it down a gear makes a huge difference in the EGTs without losing any speed up the hills. On the Alpine and Golden Acorn inclines going out I get a good run at it (~75mph) then just let it ride until the EGTs get to about 1250-1300. As soon as the temp gets up I go from Tow/Haul mode to O/D off and the temps drop back down to about 1000 and I just cruise about 60mph the rest of the way. Basically every hill is the same all the way out and back. I know that's probably harder on my trans, so its a balancing act the whole trip between keeping the EGTs in check and the trans temps down (I have a bigger trans fluid pan, which helps a little there).

By the way Jnovotny, who did your transmission work? I'm looking for a reputable shop here in town to get some work done... basically a TC and valve body.
 

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Yeah smog is a mother******, smarty UDC sounds like the way to go. Ive been debating between the jr and sr tho. I might do the smarty, then lift pump (mainly for peace of mind) then turbo. I've been looking for more info on the fleece turbos. I know they have one that appears stock is that the cheetah?
This is a common debate whether to go with a JR or a SR. Just my personal opinion, with the results you are looking for and what you use the truck for, I'd really suggest finding a SR., especially if you are looking into getting some custom UDC tunes. The reason for this is, the SR gives us the capabilities to tune the Rail pressure map, and the JR does not. While you can still get a great custom UDC tune on the JR platform, the results are going to be much better with the SR version simply because your tuner will have more control, higher limitations, and access to the pressure map which affects the entire tune.

There will only be so much your tuner can do with JR version having to tune around the stock pressure map values, but it will still be quite a bit better than the stock box tunes that come on it. Let me know if you have any questions about what can realistically be achieved with a Smarty (base tunes or custom UDC tunes, SR or JR). :thumbsup:

Also, I would definitely recommend looking into the Fleece Cheetah turbo. Either the upgraded 351 or the 63 sounds like it would work really well on your truck. I'm here to help any way I can with any questions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
First off thanks for all the advise, sound like a SR is the way to go, not just from this site but others as well.

Gecoveyc, a few words on my tranny, it was built by DRW trannsmisions in santee, wayne is a nice guy, good tech, and honest. That said im happy with HOW my tranny shifts but so happy with WHEN it shifts. It shifts early and often, ans occasionaly hunts. Waynes explanation is that its handled by the electronics and there is nothing he can do about it. So i began searching for 48re experts (the 2005's are oddballs). While in the process of working with dave goerend to troubleshoot potential problems i stumbled upon certified transmisions in santee, after talking with john i feel he has a ton of experience with diesel powered 48re's, he put mine on a scanner and feels that a some sort of runer was used on my ECM in the past and was left in a below stock setting which is playing hell with the tranny electronics. Long story short DRW built a mechanicly sound tranny but i think john at certified is more in touch with the diesel crowd as he does all the 48re's for ntg racing. I dont know if jon will do piecemeal trans builds, i glt the feeling if hes ginna put his stamp on it he wants to do the whole thing but you would have to ask him, he is a nice guy and took the time to show me the internals he uses and explain why. His advice was to start by installing a tuner.

So my plan is to install the smarty, see how i like the power/egt's and hope it cleans up some of the shifting.(my sence is that i will like the power and wont see any egt improvement). Install new tires and a leveling kit (my tires are bald). If shift issues persist, install a borgwarner gov soleniod or full goerend VB, and finally if needed, which i think it will be, choose between the fleece 351 or cheetah.

I will keep this post updated as i move through each step.
 

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First off thanks for all the advise, sound like a SR is the way to go, not just from this site but others as well.

Gecoveyc, a few words on my tranny, it was built by DRW trannsmisions in santee, wayne is a nice guy, good tech, and honest. That said im happy with HOW my tranny shifts but so happy with WHEN it shifts. It shifts early and often, ans occasionaly hunts. Waynes explanation is that its handled by the electronics and there is nothing he can do about it. So i began searching for 48re experts (the 2005's are oddballs). While in the process of working with dave goerend to troubleshoot potential problems i stumbled upon certified transmisions in santee, after talking with john i feel he has a ton of experience with diesel powered 48re's, he put mine on a scanner and feels that a some sort of runer was used on my ECM in the past and was left in a below stock setting which is playing hell with the tranny electronics. Long story short DRW built a mechanicly sound tranny but i think john at certified is more in touch with the diesel crowd as he does all the 48re's for ntg racing. I dont know if jon will do piecemeal trans builds, i glt the feeling if hes ginna put his stamp on it he wants to do the whole thing but you would have to ask him, he is a nice guy and took the time to show me the internals he uses and explain why. His advice was to start by installing a tuner.

So my plan is to install the smarty, see how i like the power/egt's and hope it cleans up some of the shifting.(my sence is that i will like the power and wont see any egt improvement). Install new tires and a leveling kit (my tires are bald). If shift issues persist, install a borgwarner gov soleniod or full goerend VB, and finally if needed, which i think it will be, choose between the fleece 351 or cheetah.

I will keep this post updated as i move through each step.

Hey Josh, hope I was able to answer some of your questions over the phone. Some of these guys will be able to further address the trans. issues and find a good solution.

We'll get started on your tuning as soon as your dongle and S06 arrive and and address the EGTs and other things you've mentioned . If the transmission continues to do the sporadic behavior with the smarty and UDC then I'll get you a recovery file to get you a clean slate in the ECM and eliminate that variable before you start spending more money on transmission parts. :thumbsup:

Looking forward to working with you.
 

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Sorry the trans explanation above was for onespeed, not gecoveyc.
Just got back in town and saw this... thanks for the heads up on Certified Transmission in Santee. I will be visitng them shortly to talk about my transmission. Mine does he same quick shift / hunting thing sometimes. Lately when I really get on it (rarely, but it does happen :party018:) it has started to feel kinda like something is slipping, like it doesn't want to downshift. Kinda hard to explain, but it ain't right either way.

I'll be watching to see if you end up going with a new turbo... that may be next on my list as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hey fellas,
Sorry it took me a while to update but ive been busy. So far i put new shoes on her, went with toyo 285/75/17's on the stock rims along with a ready lift 2" inch steel leveling kit. I couldnt be happier with stance and the tires. I did have to use 1.5" spacers in the rear wich is accually to much but was the skiniest avail. I may look into changing the backspacing on the outer dual in the future to eliminate the spacer as realy only about a half inch is needed. For tuning i went with a smarty senior and UDC. As i am not a tuning whiz i enlisted coffman customs to help out with that, gecovey and randy have been great. Goid communication and quick service. As for the tune/tunes they have supplied once again i am impressed. I have noticed considerable power gains minimal smoke lowered EGT while towing and even increased milage on the freeway, of course still somewhat dependant on your right foot. I have not done snything to the tranny yet, since most shift issues were cleared up with the tuner, tho i may do a valvebody instead of my current shift kit to help more with the extra low end torque. I also have not yet done a turbo. The turbo will hoprfully come at the end if this year. With either upgrade i will update this post.
 
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