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New England Chapter VP
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150 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I know it has been beaten to hell, but I couldn't find a thread with the same symptoms, so i figured I'd start a new one. :thud:

So i've been driving my truck for a half hour already without a hiccup. I park it back at home, start it 15 minutes later, drive down my road and went to take a left up a hill. As soon as i went to accelerate I got a few really bad surges that made the whole truck bounce and jerk like crazy up the hill.

I came home and started it a few times and it sounded a little funny on startup n didn't really fire up as quick as it used to, but once running sounded fine. I took it for another short ride, troubleshooting :CRY: and i went to get on it hard to see if maybe it was another issue, and when i let off it sputtered lost all power and almost died, along with pouring out white smoke. I put it in 5th and let my momentum keep the rig running and it kinda came back to life. As long as i wasn't on the throttle, or letting it bog down real low and build boost (and obv add more fuel) it wouldn't surge at all.

When i got back to my hosue i did the 30 second bump a few times and could find no fuel leaking anywhere. My truck was updated before i bought it with the in-tank fuel pump. When bumping it i could clearly hear it run for about 30 seconds still. I do run bio, but its filtered to 2 microns, and i checked and the filter is spotless as it was 2 weeks ago when i put it in. Also, I don't readily have a fuel pressure gauge until I'm back in my shop on monday.

Everything is leading me to beleive my VP is starving for fuel... and i just got her 4 months and about 7k miles ago and, while under warranty, don't want to do it again unless I'm getting paid to do it, and it isn't my truck. :thud: Is there any way that the fuel pump can be running but not pumping fuel? From what i can understand that is what is happening.

Anyone agree with me? Or have any ideas? Get at me quick... because my credit card is on the desk in front of me and my other browser is open to Diesel Distributors USA and the "Buy Now" button for a 3 Gause Package (Boost, Pyro and FP) an AirDog 150 :thumbsup
 

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5,649 Posts
check your fuel pressure first, to make sure you have some, if that good, it would sound more like a VP (hard warm starts/white smoke/shuddering/dead pedal)
 

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370 Posts
buy the gauge set!!! just bought one myself, the isspro package, and will be installing it sunday. it comes with everything you need.
btw,any codes in the ecm?
 

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193 Posts
I have a lift pump problem now, but mine operates like normal even though the pressure says0.
 

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New England Chapter VP
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150 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I'm not getting dead pedal, nor am i getting hard starts. It only surges/falls on its face when I get on the throttle, and then white smoke follows. So i'm pretty sold on the fuel pressure bit... every time this beast has broken down its been on a freakin' friday or saturday night!

God only knows... If the front end didn't sh!t out on me I would have had the money for gauges and I could have seen that I may have not been making good fuel pressure and then I could have got the FP before any real damage occured.:thud:

I really really hope my VP is okay... beucase if its not... Bio voids warranty, and I run 100%.:CRY:
 

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61 Posts
When I upgraded my lift pump & fuel lines, It had an in tank pump, 8psi at idle and 2psi at wot. I used the in tank pump to empty the tank into a 5 gal can and it took like an hour to pump 3 gal. last winter when it was gelling, it had 0-1psi and no power, would barely pull it's self. no bucking/surging/jerking....
 

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Mopar1973Man.Com
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26,259 Posts
I have a lift pump problem now, but mine operates like normal even though the pressure says0.
I know why too...:w:




The little white plastic piece is the rotor hub inside the pump its just glued in. So after awhile the glue gives up and the plastic hub spins inside the rotor and the fuel pressure starts to fall.

Do yourself a favor get some gauges and a really fuel system like a AirDog 150 or a FASS... It will replace everything from the tank to the VP44 and the problem is fixed... Trust me I had over 4 carter lift pumps (2 stock pumps and 2 carter campaign pumps) everyone of them falled the same way the rotor hub or the pressure regulator...

Now that I got a AirDog 150 I never see pressure below 15...




I'm not getting dead pedal, nor am i getting hard starts. It only surges/falls on its face when I get on the throttle, and then white smoke follows. So i'm pretty sold on the fuel pressure bit... every time this beast has broken down its been on a freakin' friday or saturday night!

God only knows... If the front end didn't sh!t out on me I would have had the money for gauges and I could have seen that I may have not been making good fuel pressure and then I could have got the FP before any real damage occured.:thud:

I really really hope my VP is okay... beucase if its not... Bio voids warranty, and I run 100%.:CRY:
Check for error codes...
OBD II Error Codes
(P0216, P1688, P1689 usually mean the VP44 is dead!)

White smoke at start up (or anytime the truck is running) usually points to a dieing VP44 pump...

MINIMUM FUEL PRESSURE is 10 PSI
 

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New England Chapter VP
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150 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Mopar man, you are like the most thourough mofo on this website:beer cheers for sure.

I just spent an afternoon in my friends wrangler driving all over creation trying to find a damn pressure gauge, and every cap, autozone, carquest, advanced auto and federated are completely null to the diesel world. One guy actually got in an mildly heater arguement with me about how my truck has to have a fuel rail :rof. And I quote "How else would the fuel be delivered? Each of your injectors plugs into a common rail, and then is fired electronically." and i cut him off by leaving... while he is correct about new rigs i would assume, but not us VP44/P-Pump guys. I jsut gave up after that.

I plugged in the ol' smarty and theres what i found:
0177-Water In Fuel (water got in connection at bottom of filter and i never erased it)
1693-DTC detected in companion JTEC module (I got no freakin' clue what that means)
0602-Normal with a smarty.
1682-Low Charge System Current (or Volts, i cant remember).

Those are the only ones im throwing and it ran long enough with the issue for anything else to come up, so my worst fears are at bay for the moment...

I'd say maybe the low voltage has something to do with it? I mean, if it was an issue and it was bad enough for the pump to freak out, wouldn't my lights be dimming etc etc etc? I know sometimes 1/2 an amp can throw stuff into quite tizzy (as i found out with my Grand Cherokee), but this doesn't seem to be the case?

I checked my turbo for shaft play and it was fine. I checked my oil to see if maybe I had blown a headgasket, and it was fine. I am pretty good with GM 6.5's and i know those don't smoke black at all, they smoke white. I'm really curious as to why my truck smoked white when it cut out and almost shut off while driving. IF I have no pump error codes, and it runs fine unless under load, it jsut sounds like its starving for fuel.

Im gonna have to wait for a week to fix this too because of a business trip to Louden NH. So now I'll have this on my mind all week.:thud:

Least when i get back, the gauges n AirDog will be in. :$:
 

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Tech Specialist
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1,493 Posts
Sounds like a dead VP. And I second getting an aftermarket system. The intank pumps suck.
 

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New England Chapter VP
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150 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Well if its dead, its throwing no codes and its actualy unlike any other VP I have ever seen die.

And as i said in the other posts i already ordered a AirDog150 and gauges and there on there way.
 

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60 Posts
I have the same symptoms and codes. I found my truck lost power after down shifting going up a hill and has been powerless since. No boost leaks whatsoever. Im checking fuel pressure today.
 

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New England Chapter VP
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150 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Installed the 'dog 150 yesterday, and gauges today an she runs like a champ.

One thing i noticed... upon initial startup after install, the alternator let out screeches and starting shooting out copper pieces. :$: so I'm taking it that it was dead. Still made 14 volts according to the truck, but i replaced it.

As i said before i had a code for low voltage, is there any way that a random shot of low voltage didn't make enough juice for the fuel pump to supply the VP? Kinda makes sense to me. Already have everything installed and running so its not a big deal anymore, im just curious, any takers?
 

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Premium Member
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1,019 Posts
Don't know how I missed this one. But the description fits with bad VP. Primarily due to the white smoke and power/ bucking issues. The charging system can also cause similar problems and still show voltage, but may not be making the right amperage.

Usually, if the truck has the power to start, the batteries will keep it going for the short duration you describe. So, I don't think it's an electrically based issue.

The stock lift pump has several design issues that cause a host of problems. Some lift pumps do just stop working as pictured a few posts up with the plastic hub. Most lift pumps fail by via a stuck bypass. (Won't make pressure but still runs).

Sometimes a stronger lift pump will mask some of the early onset VP issues. Hopefully the new pump fixes it, but keep an eye on the VP. It would have been interesting to see what pressures you had when this issue was occurring.

Dave
 

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60 Posts
Replaced my lift pump also and my problems have been cured!!! The pump was milling away at the housing eating itself from the inside out.
 

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New England Chapter VP
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150 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Yeah, i know it masks it but this VP is less then 7K miles old. And the power loss/bucking etc was only under moderate throttle and white smoke under full throttle. I know it somewhat fits a VP, but i guess im just having a hard time putting what happend down for someone to read, but as of now everything is fine. HOpefully no more problems for a while.

And btw, Fishin2Deep4U, i bought my gauges and AirDog through you guys, and the order slip shows i ordered the correct package, but the directions and box and parts were labeled at 2003-2004 parts. Everything worked and Marc from AirDog e-mailed me the proper directions. Thanks though, good price, free shipping.
 

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New England Chapter VP
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150 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
So, a couple months later and I have something to add... A little while after i posted this, I was on ym way home from vacation and the same sputtering/surgeing thing started happening. Ended up haing to get her towed 72 miles... and due to the size of the truck the idiot flat bed guy called a Medium Duty truck to bring me... 70 for a hookup fee and 5 a mile:$:.

anyhoo; So i get it back to my shop and put her on the lift. I can't remember the code now... But it was "Injection pump position/speed senor no signal". My pump was still under warranty so I took it off and brought it to DW diesel. They took it apart and the next day called to tell me the crank angle sensor (?) in the pump was functioning properly and passed inspecion, but the pumps memory had stored that it had malfunctioned 2 times. Causeing my 2 issues. They replaced the sensor and I installed the pump, they even delivered it back to me free of charge, and let me take another pump home when i dropped mine off just in case. AWESOME serice D&W Diesel in auburn, killer price too, 1250.00 for a reman VP44.

After chatting with the guys for a bit they told umehow Bosch reman's the VP44 pumps. When a core comes in, Bosch takes it, determines the problem with it, and then test the other functions to make sure there ok, and if they work properly, they leave them and replace what was broken. So, basically, say my pump failed of a diaphram rupture. They put in the new one, tested everything, and shipped her back out, so my crank angle sensor could possibly have had 2 rebuilds and over 500k miles on it. Seems kinda crappy to me, but that what you get with a reman. There are also no more VP44's being produced anymore as we all know. So when you pay more for a pump, your getting what you pay for beucase they do replace everything in the pump, broken or not.

I would have gone that direction, but i have an account with the company i got mine through, so i got the company discount, and bought it on my account so i didnt have to pay for a few months, and theres nothing wrong with that!:thumbsup
 

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I had the same symptoms, twice. it was the lp, cured with a fass 150.
 

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I just drove home and my 2003 3500 (stock) 5.9 gave me the "dead pedal" routine lost power..then just died. I got it recranked and it pulled into my garage..

Lift pump?
 

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I went through the same thing on Wednesday. Driving home from work my rpm's started to drop and died on me when I came to a stop. The only hint I had was an occassional miss now and then at idle. I installed an Airdog FP-100 and now she runs great! :thumbsup:
 

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Vendor
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After chatting with the guys for a bit they told umehow Bosch reman's the VP44 pumps. When a core comes in, Bosch takes it, determines the problem with it, and then test the other functions to make sure there ok, and if they work properly, they leave them and replace what was broken. So, basically, say my pump failed of a diaphram rupture. They put in the new one, tested everything, and shipped her back out, so my crank angle sensor could possibly have had 2 rebuilds and over 500k miles on it. Seems kinda crappy to me, but that what you get with a reman. There are also no more VP44's being produced anymore as we all know. So when you pay more for a pump, your getting what you pay for beucase they do replace everything in the pump, broken or not.

You are correct that most re-builders are not very thorough. The re-builders I use replace all older parts to the newest parts # available. Some shops do better than others.

I will differ on "you get what you pay for." There are some shops that sell you a cheap pump and mark it up higher :shock: than what many of the vendors here sell a good quality pump.
 
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