[Ramiron]

I have a knock, one of many types it seems. A little background on the truck and this issue. It is a one owner, never abused, never overheated and maintained on schedule. She is bone stock except for the Bosch RV275's. I replaced the VP44 two years ago. The mileage is now sitting at 187K miles.
This knock began very low and now is quite loud. Knock is louder than the video indicates, since engine has been run more. I am thinking a possible rod knock.
Trouble shooting steps taken; replaced injectors and cross-over tubes, thinking it could be a fueling knock. 5 spd. so not a flex plate issue. Adjusted valve lash to spec. The truck has been driven approximately 25 miles since initially hearing the faint knock. I had towed a 26' travel trailer approx. 15 miles at the time. The oil filter has been cut open and examined. It contains a small amount of metal, but lower than expected for the loudness of the knock and distance driven. Pulled the oil pan and found very little metal debris. I have not removed and examined any bearings at this point. I see no heat discoloration of rods or mains.
I ask your help by reviewing the video. First two pictures show the metal flakes (goldish in the pan, white is reflections). Second is a portion of the filter paper, flakes are consistent in the filter element. There is very little to no blow-by. Please pay particular attention to the portion of the video that shows a rocker "clicking" while cranking with fuel disabled. I'm very interested if anyone has witnessed this symptom. Appears to be cylinder 2 or 3 to me. I couldn't see any issues with springs or rockers.
Video link '98 24v

Sorry for the long explanation. Appreciate the forums assistance.

 

[YogiBayer]

If you have the pan off try grasping and push/pull each rod to feel if there is any slack. You could replace all rod bearings that's not perfect but is doable.

 

[Ramiron]

If you have the pan off try grasping and push/pull each rod to feel if there is any slack. You could replace all rod bearings that's not perfect but is doable.

Thanks, I tried that and found no looseness. Figuring for the cost, that I will roll in bearings while I have it down. Hate to put it back with bearings and not know what the issues is. Wondering if I have a spun bearing? Do you have a recommendation on bearing manufacturers? Also I am seeing a bearing advertised as having .001" (??) extra oil clearance, what's up with that?

 

[YogiBayer]

I will let someone who has been rebuilding these motors give you a bearing recommendation. Put out a thread just on that. As to extra oil clearance I see the idea, but cant really see the need since 500k on stock is easily doable.
When you pull the caps you may identify the problem. Have you checked your lift pump?

 

[Ramiron]

I will let someone who has been rebuilding these motors give you a bearing recommendation. Put out a thread just on that. As to extra oil clearance I see the idea, but cant really see the need since 500k on stock is easily doable.
When you pull the caps you may identify the problem. Have you checked your lift pump?

I haven't looked for bearing info yet, other than a bit of vendor/pricing/availability. If you point me toward his thread, it would be great and save lots of searching for me. Thank you. As for the lift pump, it is fairly new, I will have to look at maintenance log. I think pressure was running about 15psi, using my ol' memory. Oil pressure was +/- 60 psi via mopar gauge. Plan to pull caps tomorrow, just to have a look see, but plan to replace one at a time.

 

[afterburn549]

My hearing hears a loose crossover.
Maybe.
Check the lash.
Were there any plastic oil tubes in the bottom of the pan when you dropped it?
About 1.5 inches long
About 3/16 dia.
Plastic piston jet coolers are a known problem.
Then Oil P is lost to the rear mains when this happens and a weird noise develops.
BTDT
A little late but an oil sample will have stated what the FOD is.
I see no reason to pull anything apart yet.
Run the overhead
Do a fresh oil and filter.
Do oil sample in 500 miles.
See what it says .
If good go to 1000 miles

 

[Ramiron]

My hearing hears a loose crossover.
Maybe.
Check the lash.
Were there any plastic oil tubes in the bottom of the pan when you dropped it?
About 1.5 inches long
About 3/16 dia.
Plastic piston jet coolers are a known problem.
Then Oil P is lost to the rear mains when this happens and a weird noise develops.
BTDT
A little late but an oil sample will have stated what the FOD is.
I see no reason to pull anything apart yet.
Run the overhead
Do a fresh oil and filter.
Do oil sample in 500 miles.
See what it says .
If good go to 1000 miles

Thanks for the input. I read a reply you did to someone regarding the squirters, found that interesting. I do have the crank counter ring you spoke of, but found no sign of the tubes, unless they were swept into my oil drain bucket when I drained the oil. I will have to verify that they are not in the bucket. The pan was surprisingly clean of debris. Can they be seen in the block with just the pan removed, crank etc. in place? Maybe with aid of a mirror? Can better squirters be installed with crank and internals all in place?
The crossover you are possibly hearing, is that the "clicking" rocker with the no start cranking video? I had the VP unplugged to see if I could hear the knock w/o starting.
I adjusted the lash to spec., adjusted to slightly tight, nothing changed so readjusted back to spec.
I can't do more trouble shooting the top at this point, for now, since the pan is off. I'm hoping the problem will show up as I pull caps. I did save oil for an analysis, but at this stage I'm not sure of the benefit, unless the bearings don't show evidence of where the shavings are coming from.
Thanks for the input

 

[MustangDiesel004]

Like afterburn549 said it sounds like valve lash on one cylinder is loose. I just adjusted the valves on my common rail last weekend and got the exhaust valves loose on #5 and it sounded like this. I would think a rod knock would be a lot louder. Just my .02 cents.

 

[afterburn549]

The trouble with the squirters it is always the last 3 (near the flywheel) that jump out.
I will only guess you could see them with a mirror.
or a small camera (borescope)
For the noise-
As said I would redo the valve lash.
Have someone bar the engine over and watch for busted parts in the crossovers
Bent push rods, tips missing off them. (ball ends)
Busted springs.
Siezed (tight valves)
Loose guides.

 

[Ramiron]

The trouble with the squirters it is always the last 3 (near the flywheel) that jump out.
I will only guess you could see them with a mirror.
or a small camera (borescope)
For the noise-
As said I would redo the valve lash.
Have someone bar the engine over and watch for busted parts in the crossovers
Bent push rods, tips missing off them. (ball ends)
Busted springs.
Siezed (tight valves)
Loose guides.

I will revisit the top end after I go through the rods and mains. I pulled the #1 rod cap this afternoon. The bearing wasn't good, but doesn't look catastrophic to my untrained eye. I can't find my impact after this relocation, so it going to take this ol' man a while to work through these with a breaker bar. Here is the #1 rod.

 

[afterburn549]

Yea , agreed, but i would measure the roundness of the rod journal anyway.
You can roll in new mains without pulling the crank out .

 

[Ramiron]

 

[afterburn549]

Interesting FoD there, the dimples.
The bearing wear is short in width for some reason.
Very centrally located.
Can they be the wrong size bearings?

 

[YogiBayer]

You are in there so check the back of the bearing and replace as you go.
I know I would just because.

 

[Ramiron]

Yea , agreed, but i would measure the roundness of the rod journal anyway.
You can roll in new mains without pulling the crank out .

Thanks, will try for sure. The journal looks really good, I see no scratches and can't feel anything with my nail. I rotated crank slightly to clear rod a tiny bit. I could feel any looseness of the wrist pen, but then I might not be able to detect movement.
I need to educate myself in reading bearing wear patterns.
I've seen several main bearing roll in videos, so will roll in new after I go through the rods. You have a favorite for bearings?

 

[YogiBayer]

Back will tell you if undersized

 

[afterburn549]

I would buy bearings direct from Cummins.
But i would verify what you have for size or undersize.
Measure the crank journal. (no presumptions)
I have actually seen bearings boxed wrong, so don't ever presume too much.
Wear on the back of the bearings indicates "working " or shuffle, which would mean loose
I don't see that right now from the small sample
Post lots of pix and keep them in order front to rear, or versa visa, please.
Just so we all can get a mental pic of what is happening
Start with the rear main.
Do one at a time.
Rolling in mains is EZ enough.
Advice is free here

 

[Ramiron]

Interesting FoD there, the dimples.
The bearing wear is short in width for some reason.
Very centrally located.
Can they be the wrong size bearings?

Bearings are std., and I am only owner, so no one has been working on it. I was thinking of plasti-gauging the old bearings out of curiosity for clearance. Is it worth my time?
I was thinking I would pull each cap to see what I see, replace and tighten (not to spec.) as I go. If no show stopper damage is found, then come back with new rod bearings and torquing to spec.. Following that, roll in mains in one pass.

 

[Ramiron]

Back will tell you if undersized

The first one is stamped STD., and it has never been torn into. I am only owner.

 

[afterburn549]

The Plasti gauge will tell you if you are close enough or out 10 miles.
It will not tell you if the rod journal is egg-shaped, unless you do it several times at several places on the same journal.
It would be more EZ if you use a Micrometer of sorts.