Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum banner
21 - 40 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,811 Posts
What rghavana said^^^

Before you put REAL new Bosch or BBIs in.
Also run compression and leakdown tests on the cylinders. Just so you have a baseline for motor condition.
Have the ECU programmed back to stock at the dealer, never know who's Dog Shhittee DieCummins-Slop programming is in it. Immediately after you get it running>to the dealer shop for stock reprog.
Is the RPRV OEM Bosch? May be an aftermarket high pressure unit. Replace with one out of a real Bosch parts counter stock room ASAP before running. Or is it capped? Real Bad JuJu

Before you do damage to that expensive Cummins by sucking in dirt/dust, put an OEM stock factory air intake/filter box on it and do away with that leaking boy toy garbage.
The stock box is dirt tight, never leak and with the Wix 4" filter will make up to easy 500hp all day long with the right motor parts. Don't mess with shhittee you know nothing about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Thanks for all the feedback.
Today I put the original injectors back in, and the truck runs exactly as it did when I parked it. I have a sticking original injector. It is causing white smoke hazing. Caused some knocking and white smoked an intersection on me a few times.

So today it is not drivable, but starts and runs fine with constant white smoke hazing. I need to find new Injectors, and this time I mean NEW.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Steelhead1

Thanks.. I have owned the truck since new. The CAI is an AFE. So not really junk. Programing is stock from a dealership. I made an intake elbow out of 3" mandrel ... that is the only mods. Truck only has 152k on it.

I am going to try to get my money back, and try to find some new injectors.

Well 1 good thing.... I can do all 6 injectors with full valve lash in under 3 hours now... I am on my 5th iteration...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
ok Gents and Ladies....

The vendor has been fantastic - I can only complain about the length of time lost, but my truck is for personal use, not business.

The vendor has access to Bosch OE parts... So after having 3 of their injectors fail - we have decided to go with Bosh OE parts.
As my CP3 has 155K miles on them I went ahead and added a Bosch OE CP3 to my order.
I just need time to get into the shop and get these installed.
I do have to pat the vendor on the back ... they have been fantastic to work with.
Once my truck is up and running - I'll let you all know who my vendor is.
Font Handwriting Gas Electric blue Machine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Broncowilly

seriously - yea i F"D up and I F-ing know it already
What a helpful post - man you answered all my questions - you really helped me out here
I am freaking amazed at the level of knowledge you bring to the table...

You know your attitude is chit.
I just use my truck - I dont live on forums.
I bought my products through the guidance of XDP.
I called XDP and listened to the person on the other end of the phone line.
I called XDP - I dont have friends in the diesel parts industry - I used a - heck they might even be a sponsor to this site.
I got taken for a ride - good thing is that the supplier (Not XDP) has stood behind the purchase and is willing to make my truck right.

There are so dang many I told you so 's on here - really no need to visit these forums or share any information any more.
I can suffer through the troubles of bad parts on my own - no need to be be-ratted and beat on for sharing information.

In fact if you read the thread - I asked What caused that issue shown in pic 1 - and I received many a - Told you so, or your dumb....
Only 1 person actually answered the question with the actual cause of the failure.
Because I bought some remans from a Bosch certified shop - I get the "told you so - your an idiot"

To those of you who have offered knowledge and tried to help - Thank you very much for your knowledge.

For those of you "I told you so" - Just dont respond - Your not helping in any way...
Any you wonder why so many threads just go dead.

Guess folks are not allowed to make a mistake - hell I used XDP - did not really think that was a mistake - Guess I was wrong.

Merry Christmas to all and have a happy new year
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Update....

Installed the Bosch injectors and new CP3 pump.
Truck ran like normal - warmup was a good 10 - 15 minutes - no rumbles nothing
Took it for a drive - no issues at all for 4 miles.
Stopped at the house picked up my 4 YO who has missed truck rides....
Got 1 mile down the road and she shut down
Tow it home and pop off the valve cover ... and well another injector on cylinder 5 popped the solenoid.

I am taking it to a long time diesel mechanic, but even he is not sure what is causing this issue.
Anyone with any ideas - basically cylinder 5 has popped the solenoid on #5 - 3 times now.
 
Joined
·
3,965 Posts
2007 Cummins, 155000 miles, stock except for AirDog and AFE CAI.

Injector #5 failed, white smoke. Replaced all 6 injectors with remans.
Solenoid cap popped off #5 injector.
Installed 6 different reman injector from same vendor. P2149 DTC, another solenoid cap popped off.
Installed original injectors. Back to original problem, white smoke.
Installed 6 more injectors from same vendor. Popped solenoid cap on injector #5.

Of course share the injector vendor name.
Don't you want to prevent someone else from going thru the same situation as you are?

I wouldn't even idle the truck on any injectors from that vendor. Remove them from engine, pack them up and leave them in the boxes.


The only time I have ever seen the injector cap pop or broken off is when it got bumped by a torque wrench.
I think I recall folks breaking off an electrical injector stud and then replacing the solenoid cap. I think...

Monitoring rail pressure is definitely something everyone should do, especially on a truck with injector issues.
However I don't think high rail fuel pressure, or high fuel return fuel pressure can pop off the injector solenoid cap.

I would be contacting BBI, sending them pics. Perhaps @Martin_BBI can comment on this?

A compression gauge is pricey for a Cummins CR but I would definitely run a compression test at this point.


The injector solenoid caps popping off is strange... I hope this info helps...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
2007 Cummins, 155000 miles, stock except for AirDog and AFE CAI.

Injector #5 failed, white smoke. Replaced all 6 injectors with remans.
Solenoid cap popped off #5 injector.
Installed 6 different reman injector from same vendor. P2149 DTC, another solenoid cap popped off.
Installed original injectors. Back to original problem, white smoke.
Installed 6 more injectors from same vendor. Popped solenoid cap on injector #5.

Of course share the injector vendor name.
Don't you want to prevent someone else from going thru the same situation as you are?

I wouldn't even idle the truck on any injectors from that vendor. Remove them from engine, pack them up and leave them in the boxes.
StealthDiesel

Thanks for the information...
If you look back to post #24 - the last set of injectors were all Bosch exchange program - all sealed direct from Bosch.

The vendor is Industrial Injection, and I must say that they have been fantastic.
As the issue is the same with the Bosch injectors and the Industrial Injection injectors - I believe the problem is elsewhere in the engine.

II has provided replacements for the popped injectors without any issues, or trouble.
II even set the Bosch injectors as an effort to try and help identify if the issue is injector related.

I have an OBDLink MX+ and can monitor rail pressure now.
When the injector pops there are no codes - just cranks and no start as rail pressure never exceeds 1000psi.
 
Joined
·
3,965 Posts
Industrial Injection CR reman injectors... unfortunately no surprise there.

To mimic Stealhead, Bosch injectors in fake Chinese Bosch condom boxes cannot be relied on!
Seriously though, those "Bosch" injectors in the "Bosch" boxes could also just be Industrial Injection remans.
No surprise they are also failing.
When it comes to CR injectors, trust no one... Except maybe BBI, but verify...

Have you ever seen fuel leaking or misting from any of the injectors from the popped caps?
I don't even think that fuel could even make it thru the solenoid to the cap, but I could be wrong.


I would not even try to start the engine with those reman injectors, but you seem to be determined.

If you need to get the truck going at all costs, I would install the "good" original 5 injectors that were in the engine.
Install one of the original ones in cylinder #5 to eliminate any variable in that location.

Then roll the dice and install 1 of the reman injectors in the final cylinder.
As was mentioned, it's only a US$15k gamble!

Watch the engine oil level like a hawk for going UP. That means one or more of the injectors is dumping fuel.
Monitor the rail pressure closely.

I'm still hoping that Martin at BBI will chime in about the the solenoid caps popping off...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Industrial Injection CR reman injectors... unfortunately no surprise there.

To mimic Stealhead, Bosch injectors in fake Chinese Bosch condom boxes cannot be relied on!
Seriously though, those "Bosch" injectors in the "Bosch" boxes could also just be Industrial Injection remans.
No surprise they are also failing.
When it comes to CR injectors, trust no one... Except maybe BBI, but verify...

Have you ever seen fuel leaking or misting from any of the injectors from the popped caps?
I don't even think that fuel could even make it thru the solenoid to the cap, but I could be wrong.


I would not even try to start the engine with those reman injectors, but you seem to be determined.

If you need to get the truck going at all costs, I would install the "good" original 5 injectors that were in the engine.
Install one of the original ones in cylinder #5 to eliminate any variable in that location.

Then roll the dice and install 1 of the reman injectors in the final cylinder.
As was mentioned, it's only a US$15k gamble!

Watch the engine oil level like a hawk for going UP. That means one or more of the injectors is dumping fuel.
Monitor the rail pressure closely.

I'm still hoping that Martin at BBI will chime in about the the solenoid caps popping off...
I am not going to do anything more with the truck at this time.
Food for the family, mortgage etc...
I had to buy a car just to go to work - bit more important than a busted dodge in the driveway.
I cant just keep throwing money at this truck, nice 7800lbs yard art.

I can rent a truck for as little as I pull now a days.

I will most likely cap #5 fuel pipe, get it into the barn, pull all the new parts off, get my core charges back, and fill it with rat poison to try and keep it in decent shape.
No one seems to know the fix for it, so decision will be made at a later date - try to fix it again or part it out.
Spent a lot of $$ over the years trying to keep this thing driving straight, suspension, fueling, steering, ball joints.... most the bad Dodge stuff has been fixed
Hell I still have a redhead that needs to be installed - need to get my core back for that as well.

So you say not to buy anyone's remans and not to buy Bosch either. - that means only one company has injectors worth using? Hard to believe.


Believe it or not the fuel does get to the base of the solenoid - one of the solenoids popped while cranking - I had the valve cover off - it sprayed the engine compartment with fuel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Yeah thats a strange one, did you ever check return?
No - I have not, I should have tested on the last set of injectors.
I just got too dang happy when it started and ran nicely at idle.
I will put the original 6 back in when removing all new parts and test it then.

I would like to flush that fuel return path - know of any procedure for flushing the head fuel return path?
The issue seems to be with #5 - perhaps there is a restriction causing an overpressure at that injector.

Everything is speculation - might just pull the head off - costs me a gasket or two, and try to bench clean the fuel return path.

Suggestions are welcome
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,966 Posts
This is a very unfortunate situation you are in. I have to agree that checking the return is a must. I also have to agree the only time I've ever seen the solenoid blown off was due to damage caused by the socket or from damage from trauma.

I'm not sure if you received the PM I sent but if not, I do apologize for the insensitivity of my posts earlier. I was wrong for how I responded to your question/issue. I feel for you in that this should have been a repair and done.

Again, never buy remanufactured injectors. It is literally a crap shoot. I hope you are able to get to the bottom of this most unfortunate situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
944 Posts
These are a CR injection system meaning common rail. All 6 injectors are seeing the same pressures that should not exceed 8000psi at idle. The injectors by design are able to face pressures in excess of 26k psi.
You need to be able to measure FRP to determine if a blockage is occurring. If you do not see an excess of 26k psi that the injector is designed for, the injector is at fault.
I think the commonality of all is the II reman relabeled Bosch injectors.
time to dump $4k into BBI to save the truck or part it out like said. Sad to see another good Cummins dissected over garbage reman parts.
Contact Martin at BBI to discuss. No smarter man on this planet when it comes to these injectors
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Thanks for reaching out to me.... Sorry for not jumping in here earlier.

Jay, the problem you have is not an injector problem. The solenoid internally is only surrounded by return flow which is in the <1.5bar pressure range. The only possibility to pop off solenoids is if the return flow pressure rises to a level the solenoid can not handle. So you have a blocked return flow or at least a restriction in your fuel return causing the pressure to rise.
The only thing to blame the other injector vendor about is that they were not able to lead you into the right direction to find the cause of the failure and replacing injectors several times instead.

So clean all the fuel return bores and test them. Also test the check valve which is keeping the backflow pressure in a certain range but do not remove it as the injectors need a positive backflow pressure in the 0.3-1.5bar area to work properly. If you remove it it will cause a pressure lower than 0.3 bar which will lead to a lot of vapour in the return fuel and the switching times of the injectors armature will get inconsistent (faster and bouncier with the presence of vapour instead of dampening fuel)

A happy New Year to you all!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Martin

Thank you for jumping in here.
I have an Amazon Cup cleaning kit, and I was able to clean the injector cups and seats really well.
What is the best way to clean the fuel return path? Some of this path appears to be an internal casting to the head, and inaccessible.

This truck has 155K miles on it - I know that about 25 - 35k miles it ran B50 or B100 even - so I am suspecting crude from bad Biodiesel to be the culprit.
I am thinking the only wat to be certain is to pull the head off and have a machine shop Hot Tank the head.

I bought a car to go to work so the truck will be repaired - just at a slower pace I have a clean dry shop to keep it in so if it takes a few weeks to get the head off and back - no issues there.

I think the Hot Tank cleaning is the only way to be sure all the internal passages are completely clean.

Suggestions are welcome...

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,811 Posts
Glad the source of your Cummins problems has been identified
The air dog fuel pump filter system is unk as to its water separator rating. We have no info as to how long it has been. Is the oem filter housing in use and hv a balwin pf7977 water separator in it? If the oem filter housing has been removed, return fuel may been restricted by installer mistakes
Will be major rust damage and rust plugging in the fuel rail n return system.
Years of likely little to no real water separator and the combination of unk source quality biodiesel or fryer chicken fat w the Colonels Secret Spices I would replace the return fuel check valve at the back of the head. It will be the major rust catchment point. Expect to hv to replace much of the rest of the fuel system past the CP3.

Start running some TC-W3 outboard lube in your diesel tank for rust protection of the fuel system.
good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
I also think that you will have to remove your head. The solenoid will not pop with less than 50 bar of backflow pressure and if 50bar are not enough to get your return path free it will be hard to clean it in an installed condition. But instead of the hot tank i would get it ultrasonic cleaned. Also as you are mostly popping #5 solenoid it will most likely not be at the check valve as in that case all injectors would see the same pressure level. But I would still check it as this would be the easiest part of solving your issues.
 
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top