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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, need a bit of advice. I took my P-Pump to a local Bosch shop (the only shop I could find locally that would even touch my pump) and they called me back today with an estimate of right around $3500 to do the pump and buy new injectors. They pop tested my injectors and basically said they would throw them away as they didn't atomize at all. This pump and injectors sat (installed) for a bout 10 years in a barn. This pricing seems way off to me. There are a TON of shops online who will sell me a remanned pump for around $1200 and I can get remanned injectors for $88 each. Even with tax and shipping, that works out to be approximately $2000 in total. The one downside is that I'm pretty sure my pump is torn down, at least to a point and I'm not sure the core will stand.

Am I crazy for thinking that this is highway robbery? I know that parts for these pumps aren't necessarily cheap. The camshaft for one is right around $650. What would y'all recommend as a course of action? I'm inclined to go pick up my parts and tell them to pound sand. Heck, even if I don't get a good core out of the pump (and have to pay a core charge), it's still cheaper than what they want. I have half a mind to try and find a manual somewhere and rebuild the dang thing myself.
 

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The Uppity 12v Admin
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Base price for a standard rebuild on a P7100 is around $1200, plus whatever hard parts it might need. It can easily climb into the $3500 range if the pump is a complete dumpster fire (which is possible with how long it sat) but I would get another opinion. Bad plungers and a bad cam alone will add almost $1800 to the cost of the rebuild.

You're not going to find a rebuilder manual anywhere for that pump. Bosch is extremely tight-lipped and controlling with their tech information. Pump shops have lost their Bosch authorization status and been sued out of business after the shop has given out less-interesting information than that out to "unauthorized" people. That aside, a pump can't be rebuilt without calibration. You could home-make a stand to balance the cylinders but there's no accurate way to set the phasing. Anymore, less and less shops are okay with running an unknown-history pump on their stand. Too many blow-ups, injuries, and stand repair bills.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info! Makes sense. I'm fairly good at the interwebs and I've never seen even a peep of a repair manual for these pumps. Which also makes sense. So, how on earth are any of these resellers (or rebuilders for that matter) staying in business selling a pump for $1200? The folks at Industrial Injection have a "stock" configuration pump for $1200 online, but contacting them, they are not carrying them in stock. You have to send your pump in and have them rebuild it. I guess that's how they're doing it. They don't actually sell them for that, they take in people's pumps and rebuild them. Back to the drawing board. :CRY:
 

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Just tell them you have a spare set of injectors you can use for now and will get new ones later and then ask how much to rebuild the IP.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The pump rebuild was around $3200 with tax and everything. I just got off the phone with another rebuilder after seeing their pumps on ebay for $795. My core is not able to be used as it's a different part number (230HP pump) and they want one for one cores (which I also get). This boils down to my expectations not being set correctly from the start. Live and learn. The folks I just spoke to clearly defined it for me. I was quoted $795 for the base rebuild with commonly replaced parts and if it needs uncommonly replaced parts, they charge for the parts it needs. Out of the gate, they're at least $600 cheaper than the Bosch shop, so I'll go with them.

Now, to decide on whether or not I want to get new injectors (more fuel) or stick with stock. I hadn't planned on adding fuel to my build, but if I have to get new anyway, I may. Then I'll have to decide on whether to put more air to it (turbo). Still more questions than answers in the build and I suspect there'll be more as I go along. I just wasn't really prepared for the sticker shock on this one.
 

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As an FYI, Rock Auto carries stock Bosch injectors for the 180 motors regularly. If you catch it right they have 215s also.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Games if I could kiss you I would! I had no inkling that they'd even carry something like this.

Edit: I realized after the fact that you said "injectors" and I read it as "injection pump". In either case, they have them.
 

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You can also get injectors at Summitt Racing (at least a/o 2017). When I replaced mine in 2017, RockAuto only had 5 (even with shipping, it was worth getting new from them vs the local shop's rebuild price) and I was able to get the 6th from Summitt for not too much more.
 

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As an FYI, Rock Auto carries stock Bosch injectors for the 180 motors regularly. If you catch it right they have 215s also.
Cant find either.
 

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They don't always have them in stock. I happened on them (215s) once and ordered them, then put them on a shelf. Normally when I look they have 180s.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I cannot find the injectors, but they do have p-pumps. Remanufactured, obviously, and I found a 215 pump for just over $1300 including the core. It's remanned by a company called "Diesel Select" and appears to be remanned in the USA. Is there any reason to not buy from a supplier like this vs. someone like industrial injection (or any of the many other vendors out there)? It appears to come with a 12 month warranty (the company website says 3 years, but RA only says 1) and I'll have my pump rebuilt at some point later this year in order to have a spare sitting on the shelf. Anyone have experience with products from Diesel Select?
 

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You don't need a spare injection pump. I've been storing one for several years, probably put 300k or so on the truck since I bought it. The one installed is the original, still working as designed. I can't vouch for any rebuilder other than Austin Injection.
 

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Have you thought about looking for a used pump? they sell for $4-500 usually.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I might need a spare if I build another motor. >:)

I'll admit that I don't know the inner workings of these pumps, and only know what I've read about their basic operation. This is why my expectations were not set correctly for the rebuild. I figured since folks (in some cases) have upwards of 300K+ on their motors that the hard parts inside would be mostly ok. This engine likely had somewhere on the order of 200K on it if I had to guess. But, it's just a guess. It sat for 10 years, and was 15 years old when the RV caught on fire. At 15K a year, that's 225K. At any rate, I'm in it now for sure. As far as a used pump, I've thought about it, but my intention with this build is to get 4-500K out of it. That's part of the reason I don't want to add a bunch of fuel and air to it. I want it to last as I'm putting quite a bit of money (to me) into my build. There's something to be said for a used pump for a while and then building another to put on down the road in order to finish the build out I suppose. At the end of the day, I don't mind spending the money, but I want value for those hard earned dollars, and I want to be sure that I'm getting it.

When I get the pump back, I'll take a bunch of pictures of it and post up. It'll be interesting to see how far they tore it down as they (Bosch shop) told me it's around 12 hours to tear down and build, but they're only charging me one hour for the check/estimate. I suppose if they put it on the bench and ran it, they'd be able to tell that parts were bad.

Thanks again all for the suggestions and knowledge! I truly appreciate it!!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well, I had a sneaking suspicion that the Bosch shop didn't actually test my pump. And, they didn't. I put a dab of grease in each injector line hole when I pulled the pump so as to not get any junk down the holes as the pump sat in my garage. The grease is still in the holes. No safety wire was pulled, and no bolts loosened that I can see. So, the technician looked at the outside of the pump and said it needed fully rebuilt, with no check whatsoever. Why can't people just do what they say they're gonna do? Now I know where NOT to take any work for injectors or pumps in Cincinnati. The only upside is, they decided not to charge me anything for lying to me. I guess the technician is clairvoyant. Must be that fancy Bosch training he has. Jerks. Rant over.
 

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That's terrible, did they offer to not charge you before or after you showed them the grease?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
They at least offered not to charge me before I checked for the grease. I felt bad until I saw it.
 

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Well, I had a sneaking suspicion that the Bosch shop didn't actually test my pump. And, they didn't. I put a dab of grease in each injector line hole when I pulled the pump so as to not get any junk down the holes as the pump sat in my garage. The grease is still in the holes. No safety wire was pulled, and no bolts loosened that I can see. So, the technician looked at the outside of the pump and said it needed fully rebuilt, with no check whatsoever. Why can't people just do what they say they're gonna do? Now I know where NOT to take any work for injectors or pumps in Cincinnati. The only upside is, they decided not to charge me anything for lying to me. I guess the technician is clairvoyant. Must be that fancy Bosch training he has. Jerks. Rant over.
Something to keep in mind is that there is an increasing trend of shops refusing to run unknown-history pumps on test stands.

It's a common occurrence for a guy to buy a "built" pump from a reputable builder, keep his good/running pump for a spare or to resell as good/used, then satisfy the core with a unit from a junkyard or broken-down piece of equipment being parted out. That pump has probably been sitting exposed to the elements for months or years and the pump may have been the reason it went to scrap in the first place.

The shop I work for does a lot of work with Farrell Diesel Service, a year or two ago he had one too many pumps blow up on his stand. We have a good rapport with him, and even so, if I were to pull my known-good pump off my daily driver, he wouldn't even run that on his stand without a complete teardown first. Pump stands are too expensive, there's too much to go wrong in these from sitting, and come-aparts are dangerous. I talked with one shop that had a P7100 governor explode on the stand. A flyweight went through two layers of sheetrock and destroyed a computer monitor in the adjacent office. The operator happened to be standing off to the side reaching for a tool, if he hadn't he would have been in the line of fire and gotten seriously injured. That shop now has ballistic shields for each pump stand and discontinued max/balance jobs on used pumps.

I'm not saying that shop didn't lie to you, I don't know what was discussed, but unless they specifically said they would "run it on the stand" a basic inspection doesn't amount to running it on the stand anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I appreciate the feedback dauntless! They did not say that they would put it on a stand and test it, specifically. The instruction was: Do whatever you have to do to tell me what, if anything, is wrong with my pump, and what it takes to fix it. Same with the injectors. What I go back was, a pump that had zero parts removed and no evidence that it had been tested at all. Same with the injectors. Looking at them, it appears that only one of them may have been pop tested. I guess me asking what kind of hours this type of work takes turned them off.

It's disappointing to have a shop that does this for a living essentially tell me that they don't want or need my business. Clearly they have enough going on that they don't need my money. I'll move on and find another shop that actually wants the business.
 

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I was going to say that I wouldn't trust their pop test report either, especially since mine pop tested within spec after 400,000 miles. Yes, they were on the low side, but the main problem was erosion from the thousands of gallons of fuel that had enlarged the holes in the nozzles. Have you even attempted to start the engine with the pump installed?
 
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