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Discussion Starter #1
has anyone tryed a hydrogen generator. they are very simple and can really help fuel mileage. but how and where to introduce into diesel engines? everything i read about them is great but i would like to hear some comments from folks who have tryed it.
 

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I have no practical experience with this, but have given serious consideration to it. I made my own propane enrichment system on an industrial engine (old bobcat), and was going to build one, but pulled the engine & replaced it with something I didn't want to break. If it leaks, it can break a crank. I had a couple SERIOUS knocks from leaving the key on before I wired it into the kill soleniod.

You can pretty easily build your own, and hydrogen is MUCH more volatile than nearly any other gas by a factor of at least 5 depending on how you approach the math. This means it makes a better catalyst. All you need is a container for distilled water, which you can mount an anode and cathode made of graphite. You need an acid to help the process along. Sulphuric will work, but a good choice is phoshporic as it is less volatile. You can also use citric. The best way I found to get the anode/cathode into the jug is by shrink tubing over a wire overlapping a drafting pencil lead. this assembly is waterproof and then can be passed through a port in your jug. That's about as far as I got building one. :( Needs to be held stationary as the graphite is rather fragile.

I gave up on the concept mostly after switching to biodiesel. The improved cetane rating makes almost all the fuel burn in the cylinder anyway, so using a gaseous catalyst is kind of a waste of time. Petrodiesel is filled with long chain hydrocarbons which without a catalyst, under load will not burn in the cylinder, and thus exit as smoke or burn ahead of the turbo helping increase boost and egt's.
 

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Ive made two hydrogen boosters and used them on gas vehicles. The o2 sensors prevent leaning ether vehicle out so Power was the greatest improvemet seen. The mileage improvement on a diesel would be much greater. Ill give it a shot and let you know my results.
 

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I'll check with my uncle's buddy when he gets back in the states. The crazy Brit built a sailboat himself with no boat building experience and sailed it to Florida to meet up... He is now almost complete with his own hydrogen car. I'll see what I can't pick out of his mind.

Zach
 

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I would like to keep a eye on this thread, it really sounds interesting. I'll look in later.
 

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subscribing out of interest
 

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The way I understand it, the generation will provide 1 O2 and 4 H2 for every 2 H2O, so it should have NO effect on O2 sensors. Depends if you have a trick to dump the O2.

Just from the angle of researching, Hydrogen is VASTLY more reactive than propane, so it should be EXTREMELY effective. It can have a stoichometric explosion from something like 20% concentration to 80% concentration. Propane is more like 60 to 70%. I wish I could find that book... This means that it is a MUCH better catalyst in theory.

The concept is making me giddy. Maybe I'll build it afterall and try not to blow up my truck! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
TOTALLOSER, GO TO THESE WEBSITES AND READ THESE. ON EBAY SOMEONE IS SELLING SLEEVE ADAPTERS TO PUT OVER THE O2 SENSORS THUSLY CAUSING THE FUEL TO LEAN OUT AND LET THE HYDROGEN BURN WHICH THEN DOUBLES FUEL MILEAGE.
Hydrogen Generator - HHO Generator Facts
Cornish Hydrogen Generator - KeelyNet 01/10/02
HHO o2 oxygen sensor extender extension EFIF HYDROGEN EBAY Item number: 220235647463
AFTER YOU CHECH THESE OUT WRITE ME BACK AND LET ME KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING. DALE
 

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So the hydrogen would have to be put in pre-turbo correct? My question is if there is any reactions during the compression of the turbo shoving all the air into a small area. A feed into the intake horn like propane or water would not work, correct? Tryin to figure this out... I'm curious to try this on my Jetta and see what extra mileage can be pulled out of it.

Zach
 

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I have yet to read about any regaler member on this forum seeing better fuel mileage form a hydrogen set up. There was a thread about some buying a factory built unit and I don't recall any of them reporting any increase in fuel mileage after using it. If this worked as well as some claim it would be very big new and every body and his brother the world over would have one on there car, truck and semi truck to get the so called free energy and great fuel mileage.

JMHO
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What I Have Read About The Hydrogen Is You Won't See Any Mileage Improvement Unless You Alter The Map System Or The O2 Sensors. It Doesn't Read The Water Vapor So You Just Get More Power. Someone On Ebay Sells Adapters For The Sensors That Will Lean The Fuel Thusly Letting The Hydrogen Replace The Power Loss, Hence, Better Mileage. There Are Little Control Boxes That Adapt Into The Map Circuit That Fools It Into Leaning The Fuel,so Again, The Hydrogen Furnishes The Lost Power. These Are Also On Ebay.
As Far As Hydrogen In A Diesel I Am Lost Here. It Seems It Should Be Injected After The Turbo And Just Before Going Into The Cylinders. If It Is Injected Before The Turbo Are You Running Around With A Loaded Gun Just Waiting To Go Off? I Don't Know. How Would You Then Override The Pressure The Turbo Has Already Created. Will The Generator Produce Enough Pressure Its Self To Do This?
 

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DIESELDALE1 is correct. The car gains more power from the added fuel but not better mileage unless you trim out fuel and fool the o2 or map sensors. Also the booster cannot fight the boost from the turbo. The booster should have a bubbler in it to prevent a backfire that wouldn't function under pressure. I have a 16 plate cell I made from stainless steel switch plates from home depot and a whole house water filter housing. I used this in a 4cyl chevy s-10 to drive from NY to FL and back trailering two bikes weighing in at 900 not including trailer, passengers weighing in at 500 combined not including gear. The truck pulled over half its weight getting 24mpg which would've been less had the booster not supplied extra power. About 20 oz of distilled water needed to be added every 300-400 miles to keep the booster running under 30 amps. The added power allowed me to keep a lighter foot while that saved mileage but the indented purpose is to substitute gasoline or diesel not supplement it. Some of my inspiration came from here.
Gorilla Development LLC - Demos
 

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I would guess the way to go is preturbo. Something to consider is that you have a source of distilled water onboard. The evaporator drain for the A/C. Can't plumb it directly without a float valve as it could overflow and lose all your acid. But a filter and a bottle would give you a source. A windshield washer pump would make it handy.

By the way, you LOSE energy making hydrogen onboard. The mechanical energy is converted to electrical and you lose about 20% making it. It doesn't REPLACE gasoline/diesel. It makes them burn more efficiently. The concept is that the loss you suffer making the h2 is overcome by the more efficient burn. Diesels have MUCH more to gain in this. Especially low compression DI engines. (Cummins appx 16.5/17:1 idi's are usually at least 22:1 which makes for an efficient burn, but an inefficient process. About 20% is lost to the head through the precombustion chamber)

msdg137 The more I think about it, the more clever your setup sounds. Got any pics/links? Is it completely homebrew?
 

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The kit is Completely homebrew. Ill l dig for the pics tomorrow.
 

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SERIOUS RESERVATIONS

I have serious reservations about using any of these systems for a number of reasons.
(1) As DBLR mentions, there is little to no real data that bears our mileage increase claims.
(2) Hyrdogen is extremely dangerous, especially in a make-shift device.
(3) Several of the engineers we work with on engine development tell me that there is significant degredation of metal components in the combustion chamber on engines that they are lab-testing with hydrogen. Piston rings and a number of other internal engine parts are showing high failure rates.

At this time, you won't see any of these untested devices on my truck. It seems interesting that no recognizable company seems to be selling these devices.

Just a thought.
 

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This is interesting! Heard alot of good and bad but nothing concreate.
 
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