Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your truck HERE to be a part of December's Cummins of the Month Challenge!
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
eventually my goal is to have around 600hp.
the truck is a daily driver in the winter only, as my other vehicles i dont allow them to see any salt, ( southern ontario gets dumped with salt every winter :confused013: )
though the truck does get used all summer as well, just not everyday.
the truck sees probably 90% road use and 10% heavy mud and offroad use
i dont tow very much with it at the moment, nothing heavy atleast.
might start towing a old jeep around though.

right now i know that my stock auto tranny cant take more hp then stock
but i have friends who have maxed there pump out, no fuel plate, afc tuned, spring kit, elbow, all that jazz done but on stock trannys! they tell me that as long as im not always putting my foot to the floor that the tranny will hold its ground, but everywhere online says that you have to do the tranny first ?

a year and a half from now im hoping to be around 550-600hp
just dont have the money right now so i want to do it in stages
i really hate automatic and really want to change my tranny to the 5 speed
ive already swapped my engine and tranny once though a few years ago
but i just dont have the power in the mud bogs that i need
im running 40" mud terrains and i have 40" boggers for the pits
with 4.88 gearing,

as for right now im thinking of tuning the engine ( afc, boost elbow, fuel screw, fuel plate, etc ) all the cheap mods first. I want to install tranny temp gauge and egt gauge as well, i already have a boost gauge in.

i was looking for the insight of a more experienced 12v guy for help.
what should i start with? keeping in mind my eventual goal is to have a
fully built well built ( no monkey business ) 550 - 600 hp 12v
do i go with twins ? big single? what order should i be installing things in
keep in mind i dont have the money to get this all done at once and it will be an on going project probably over a year to even two years.

keeping in mind that i hate my auto tranny right now
(it shifts great and i dont think theres any problem with it )
im just a standard guy and very much so want to put a built 5 speed in
that can handle the 550-600 hp that i eventually want.

what should i do first ? im thinking gauges because i want to be able to monitor temperatures and etc...

what can i do to get the most out of my stock set up for the time being ?

i know the built 5 speed standard tranny it self is going to cost big money, and then having to install it. converting auto to standard etc..

but what im trying to say is, i want more power now!! without having to spend the ton on a new tranny that i will have to anyways.

how much power can i get out of my stock set up before my tranny starts to fail/slip/blow ?

i have lots of questions and would really like to see someones insight
who has a truck built like how i would like mine to be some day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
Im running all the free mods with just a shift kit and hd shift band and it holds fine. I'm switching to a billet si gle disc because I hate the stock 2200 rpm stall speed. Sounds like I'm trying to race someone every time I'm getting into the freeway.

Dieselperformanceconverters.com

Really good prices

95-thuren equipped
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks for the info!
also im very very worried about the kdp,
i see that in your sig you have "tabbed kdp" could you explain this in detail?
ive read all about it that i can and am thinking about buying this 65$ kit to fix it,
but is there an easier quicker way to make sure it never comes out of place ?
thanks for the reply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
265 Posts
thanks for the info!
also im very very worried about the kdp,
i see that in your sig you have "tabbed kdp" could you explain this in detail?
ive read all about it that i can and am thinking about buying this 65$ kit to fix it,
but is there an easier quicker way to make sure it never comes out of place ?
thanks for the reply.

yes... grind down a fender washer and stick it under the bolt next to the KDP.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
505 Posts
Read this thread:
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...ssion/314312-beginners-thread-read-first.html

It covers the info you need to gain more power from your 12 valve. Your transmission may or may not survive with a new fuel plate profile, AFC mods, governor springs, and a timing bump. If you plan to spin more than 3000 rpm, you will want to upgrade your valve springs. Your tranny will probably survive if you stay off the skinny pedal. But if you're like me and you get all excited about the new power, your tranny won't last long. I fried my stock clutch and a 400 hp single disk with basic free mods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
yes... grind down a fender washer and stick it under the bolt next to the KDP.
thanks, would this be what tabbed kdp means ?
and by "stick it under the bolt next to the kdp"
could you explain how to do this ?
what size washer ?
how much do i grind down ?
by stick it" do you mean weld it ?
where exactly would i be sticking it? " the bolt next to the kdp"
which exact bolt ?
i really want to fix the kdp before i star doing anything else,
the offroading and abuse the truck takes im thinking will make it slide out alot faster then a babied 12v.

thanks for all the help
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Read this thread:
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/9...ssion/314312-beginners-thread-read-first.html

It covers the info you need to gain more power from your 12 valve. Your transmission may or may not survive with a new fuel plate profile, AFC mods, governor springs, and a timing bump. If you plan to spin more than 3000 rpm, you will want to upgrade your valve springs. Your tranny will probably survive if you stay off the skinny pedal. But if you're like me and you get all excited about the new power, your tranny won't last long. I fried my stock clutch and a 400 hp single disk with basic free mods.
thanks i have read through that a few times now,
i know what will give me more power
but i was more so looking for advice from people who know what there talking about when it comes to building a 550-600 hp fully built 12v

and more importantly what order to do mods, what extent etc..
i wrote that i have an auto trans now but i want to swap it for a fully built 5 speed stick but that wont be happening for 6 months,
but what could i do now thats cost effective ( "free" mods, not turbos and expensive parts etc )
i had questions in my original post with the end goal of what i want in mind
do i go twins?
what set up would be best for what i will be using the truck for
as i said its a daily driver in the winter and see's 90% road use and 10% heavy offroad/mud boggs
i want more hp now with the stock set up that the truck has,
whats the most i can do without blowing my stock auto tranny
but the plan is eventually a year or two from now have the new built 5 speed tranny and an engine that is putting out 550-600 hp

does anyone have a 12v thats built to handle that amount of hp?
i want to basically build a mud bog racer/beastly daily driver
i have already spent thousands of dollers on lift, axles, proper gears, tires, etc
now i want to get the engine and tranny up to par, but i want to do it in stages
i want to get the most out of my stock auto tranny, ( free mods timing afc plate etc.. ) in the meantime that im saving for my built tranny, then when thats in i was planning on doing all the more drastic engine mods, injectors, turbos etc..

any help is appreciated. thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
With the stock trans you can add a 4k gsk and 150# intake/exhaust valve springs so you don't float a valve. People are always shocked when I rev my truck to 4200 rpm, it's kinda funny.

Also if you want, you could upgrade your manifold and turbo in the meantime, shouldn't hurt the tranny since it won't add power and when your ready for more power just do injectors & delivery valves.

A 64/71/.83 T4 and a T4 manifold should support 550hp with alot of fueling.

This is what i would do if I were you in this order.

KDP
Guages
Head sruds
Valve springs
4k GSK

(your stock tranny should handle that)

Once you give the tranny some love
Turbo & T4 manifold
025 delivery valves
5x16 injectors
18* timing
2095 Mack Plug
AFC

You will also need to either get a FASS or run an inline fuel pump to increase fuel pressure, your stock lift pump is only good to 600hp in a perfect world.

95-thuren equipped
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mikescummins17

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
wow 4200 rpm ?
is that not really bad for the drivetrain ?
my truck barely ever see's over 3100 rpm
thank you for all the great info, definitely more so what i was looking for.
now with the tabbed kdp,
ill be doing that this week
any tips?
what will i need,
right now all im going from is this "grind down a fender washer and stick it under the bolt next to the KDP."
so if you or anyone else could expand on that, that would very much so help me!!
thank you again in advance!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
To do the KDP you gotta remove the fan, fan guard, wiper fluid resi, timing cover and what ever else is in the way. Once you can see the KDP it's super easy. The kit I bought came with a new gasket, dowel pin, some sealant and the washer that gets pinched inbetween the engine and the bolt right next to the KDP.

Took about 4 hours to do the KDP and timing. I recommend doing both at the same time so you don't have to pull e timing cover off again. Its not too hard but isn't any fun.

Make sure you torque your stock head studs to atleast 130 LBS if your going to increase timing or boost.

95-thuren equipped
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mikescummins17

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
505 Posts
wow 4200 rpm ?
is that not really bad for the drivetrain ?
my truck barely ever see's over 3100 rpm
thank you for all the great info, definitely more so what i was looking for.
now with the tabbed kdp,
ill be doing that this week
any tips?
what will i need,
right now all im going from is this "grind down a fender washer and stick it under the bolt next to the KDP."
so if you or anyone else could expand on that, that would very much so help me!!
thank you again in advance!
Watch this video. Skip to 1:35 and you'll see how the KDP is tabbed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyGhcdk4G8I

4200 is very bad without the proper valve springs. You'll float valves with the stock springs around 3200. Stock timing will limit you to about 3200 as well. With a timing bump, you will be able to rev higher but you'll still float valves without HD springs. A set of 150 pound springs from Hamilton will do the trick, but you should consider some heavy duty push rods if you're using springs that heavy. I would buy a new head and have it o-ringed, install headstuds, valvesprings, push rods, a cam, a Fass or Air Dog lift pump, a three piece exhaust manifold, and all that good stuff. Once you have your tranny you'll be able to add injectors, delivery valves, and compounds. You could make 600 hp on a single, but for a daily driver I would opt for compounds. You have a lot of turbo choices. The build I am researching/planning is going to be around 500 hp and I'm not familiar with the turbos that will be best at that 600 hp level.

Have you looked into the problems guys are having sending 600 hp through an NV4500? I can't find the thread I was hoping for. After reading up, I'm a little discouraged to try an NV4500 at 500 hp. It doesn't seem to matter what anyone does, these transmissions just don't handle big power on the street very well. As long as you don't send a shock load through the tranny, they will hold. That's how sled pullers manage to send 1200 hp through them. But it seems like people are having trouble keeping the NV4500 together on the street at the 500-700 hp range. I am still going to try, as I love my standard, but it might get expensive.
This thread has a little info:
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-powertrain/134455-built-nv4500.html

Right now I am trying to find alternative transmission options like a six speed Eaton or something. But I haven't had much luck yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks!

To do the KDP you gotta remove the fan, fan guard, wiper fluid resi, timing cover and what ever else is in the way. Once you can see the KDP it's super easy. The kit I bought came with a new gasket, dowel pin, some sealant and the washer that gets pinched inbetween the engine and the bolt right next to the KDP.

Took about 4 hours to do the KDP and timing. I recommend doing both at the same time so you don't have to pull e timing cover off again. Its not too hard but isn't any fun.

Make sure you torque your stock head studs to atleast 130 LBS if your going to increase timing or boost.

95-thuren equipped
Okay thanks should i buy the kit or can i do it with things i can get here
Just want to do it this week, dont want to wait for shipping
Also i will do the timing at the same time! As you said it makes sense to
What would you advise i change it to and
I guess i can find a how to on that
I live up in canada so would the cold make the truck harder to start
With changed timing ?
Also whats rhe differnefe from a higher timing then a lower one
Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
265 Posts
thanks, would this be what tabbed kdp means ?
and by "stick it under the bolt next to the kdp"
could you explain how to do this ? remove the bolt, stick the washer on the bolt and re-install bolt with the washer covering the dowel pin.
what size washer ? one that fits over the dowel pin.
how much do i grind down ? it will be obvious where it needs to be clearanced when you get it apart.
by stick it" do you mean weld it ? no
where exactly would i be sticking it? " the bolt next to the kdp" yes
which exact bolt ? the one next to the dowel pin
i really want to fix the kdp before i star doing anything else,
the offroading and abuse the truck takes im thinking will make it slide out alot faster then a babied 12v.

thanks for all the help

you're over thinking this.... it's not all that hard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
To do the KDP you gotta remove the fan, fan guard, wiper fluid resi, timing cover and what ever else is in the way. Once you can see the KDP it's super easy. The kit I bought came with a new gasket, dowel pin, some sealant and the washer that gets pinched inbetween the engine and the bolt right next to the KDP.

Took about 4 hours to do the KDP and timing. I recommend doing both at the same time so you don't have to pull e timing cover off again. Its not too hard but isn't any fun.

Make sure you torque your stock head studs to atleast 130 LBS if your going to increase timing or boost.

95-thuren equipped
Okay thanks should i buy the kit or can i do it with things i can get here
Just want to do it this week, dont want to wait for shipping
Also i will do the timing at the same time! As you said it makes sense to
What would you advise i change it to and
I guess i can find a how to on that
I live up in canada so would the cold make the truck harder to start
With changed timing ?
Also whats rhe differnefe from a higher timing then a lower one
Thanks
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
505 Posts
Okay thanks should i buy the kit or can i do it with things i can get here
Just want to do it this week, dont want to wait for shipping
Also i will do the timing at the same time! As you said it makes sense to
What would you advise i change it to and
I guess i can find a how to on that
I live up in canada so would the cold make the truck harder to start
With changed timing ?
Also whats rhe differnefe from a higher timing then a lower one
Thanks
All you need is a tab for the KDP. You're really overthinking this. A piece of flat iron, a ground fender washer, or a tab will work. All it does is cover a hole so the dowel pin can't rattle out. It doesn't take much. But, you should have a fresh timing cover gasket on hand to replace the old one.

If you don't have headstuds and are concerned with cold weather starting, 16.5 degrees is a safe bet. I didn't notice any difference in cold starting with 16.5* timing. Above that, the truck may be hard to start and increased cylinder pressures could pop a head gasket. This thread has a handy little chart about the effects of timing changes:
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-powertrain/215597-what-all-does-timing-advance-affect.html

Make use of the search function on google. Most of these questions that you are asking could be answered in 15 seconds using the search function.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top