Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I posted this in the General section and I have yet to get an answer so I thought i'd repost it here:
I haven't bought a Ram yet, but i've been considering them. I plan on starting a transportation business and lately i've been leaning towards a Cummins powered 3500 DRW. I've been looking at the 03-07 for the 5.9 as i've driven quite a few of them. I have never touched one with the 6.7 in it. In the beginning I was more interested in an 08 F450 for the 24,000# towing capacity. After getting the full service history on it after 35k miles being 5 pages long and some major issues, I have decided to look at the "dark side". I have always been a Ford man but the 6.4 is too flawed to try and keep a steady business going. Sorry for rambling, onto the point: I'm more interested in 03-07 5.9 Ram 3500's Duallys. I am open minded and may consider the 6.7 with some persuasion. I'm looking for any quirks these trucks may have and if they have any major mechanical flaws. I know the transmissions are a weak link but that's all I really know about them. How much can they tow with a 5th wheel/gooseneck setup and what kind of mpg's can I expect? Thanks for the help in advance!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,572 Posts
I have an 09 6.7L i6 and have been averaging about 9-11mpg towing a 19k 5th wheel with my DRW Mega Cab.

Total GCVWR has been around 29-30k.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
What's the max they are rated to tow? I got a pamplet from the Dodge dealership and it only shows like 18k or something. By the way, what is the Resistol package?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,293 Posts
resistol is similar to the Ford King Ranch iirc

max tow, at least on the new ones, is 18k-ish...

are you looking at a manual or automatic? if an auto, Id go with the 6.7, b/c it has the 6spd auto. if manual, id go with the 5.9, no emissions to worry about.

however, you CAN make a 6.7 believe it never came with any emissions junk for around $1000. Its really all what you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,572 Posts
What's the max they are rated to tow? I got a pamplet from the Dodge dealership and it only shows like 18k or something. By the way, what is the Resistol package?

Correct, while I'm towing over GCVWR, I'm not beyond axle weight.

Resistol is a high-end interior package. Leather, virtually all interior options, etc. Supposedly, I get a $500 Resistol custom cowboy hat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I plan on getting an auto regardless of which engine I get. Does the 6.7 go through the regen cycles like the 6.4's do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Correct, while I'm towing over GCVWR, I'm not beyond axle weight.

Resistol is a high-end interior package. Leather, virtually all interior options, etc. Supposedly, I get a $500 Resistol custom cowboy hat.
Is that a Western US package? I've never heard of that before. Then again, i've never really looked at Dodges til I saw the problematic 6.0 and 6.4.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,972 Posts
I plan on getting an auto regardless of which engine I get. Does the 6.7 go through the regen cycles like the 6.4's do?
yes it does. thats what everyone is mentioning as far as emissions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
162 Posts
Great! What year did that start? Should I stray away from it or will I be alright?
they started from 07.5 to current......if the truck has the 6.7L then it has all the emissions junk......and the 5.9L does not (year 07 and prior)

Yes the 6.7L will go through regen cycles like your previous ford....I have had mine for up til 30000km bone stock and had no problems...then I got rid of all the emsiions junk and fuel mileage went up and truck just drives better. If you're not worried about losing your warranty....I'd get the 6.7L and spend another $1000+/- to get rid of the emissions junk..... as the 6speed autos are a lot better than the older 4speed found in the 5.9L trucks...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
When I was at the dealership I was told that most of the guys with diesels in there do some kind of transport. He said one of their customers has an 08 with 214k miles on it. To start off i'm probably going to buy used. Forget the Ford, i'm a Ford man but I can't trust the 6.0 or the 6.4. I've seen a few 08's on autotrader across the state I might go look at it. What's a fair price for a used QCLB dually with say 0-50k and 50-100k miles?
Here's one I found: Truck Details - 270722400 - AutoTrader.com Seem fair enough?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,943 Posts
Great! What year did that start? Should I stray away from it or will I be alright?
emissions started way back in 98.5, but the emissions that cause issues are from 07.5(Basically the 6.7L versions)


HOWEVER i will throw my 2 cents in since i own a 99 and own 50% of a 08.


When searching for a replacement truck(it started out as a replacement) my dad was adamant on no new dodges, because the 99 is so noisy etic, but after much persuasion did get him to test out a 6.7 and he was amazed at how quiet it was. anyways on to my thoughts on the two trucks.

the 5.9L motors

(i should note that there is a huge noise difference between the earlier mechanical trucks ie 94-02.5 motors and the Common rail (CR) trucks from the 02.5-07.5)

I love the 99 i love the power it has and the mileage i get, but i would say its well worth dropping the 5grand for a good fully built auto from Goerend as a fully built auto makes a world of difference in the 4 speed trucks, basically years 94-07, cover the 46RH to 48RE.

The next thing about the 99 i love is no emissions, i can straight pipe, if i chose so, however i run a muffler delete, and a BHAF among other things(see sig), and i don't fear the emissions tester.

Some of the downsides of the older 5.9's, the weight towing, currently with a stock motor and stock truck i can feel the weight once you hit the magical 13,000lbs mark, typically anything over 13K, and im running in 3rd gear which i feel the rpm's are to high to be effective for a long haul at any decent mileage.

Now if i actually took the money and did upgrade the tranny, i could then also add sticks and a smarty, and then my 5.9 would tow things and it would do it in overdrive not 3rd. but it gets back to the 5K you need for a good fully built tranny.

The hunt for a new truck

Initially my dad wanted a new dully to tow his newly bought camper but found that the older truck just couldn't do it, so we went shopping for a truck, we looked at the GMC 3500's, and then the Top Kicks 4500 and 5500 series, great looking truck rides great and with the 5.12's hell you could win the 1/4 mile hands down, down side mileage sucked, like 7mpg.

The we looked at a F-450 King ranch series with the 6.4L in it 65,000 miles and apparently the previous owner traded it for a dodge, and the ford dealership got it at auction(should have been a sign). Anyways dad liked the F-450 and ho quiet and comfy the seats were, and i had to agree, but i also knew the 6.7 was a beats motor. But my dad didn't want to hear it, he was adamant that the Cummins didn't change from the 99 years, but after wagering the 50% stake on the truck he agreed to take a look, and when we took it out it was a night and day difference.

The 6.7L 08 dodge we got turned out to be a white elephant, the only white dodge 3500 in new jersey with a towing package and 4.10's its trailer rating was i think 18K, but with the 4.10's and a locked diff this truck and haul arse.

My towing experience with the F-450 with a 7.3 and a 6.4

While working for several landscaping companies i have driven F-450's equipped with both the 7.3 and the 6.4 on the F-450 Dump truck models, while towing with them, while i like truck the 5 speed tranny coupled with the high rpm's of the motor made for somewhat ok mileage, but the biggest thing was doing 2,000 rpm's at 55 mph, i just never liked running such rpm's, and considering both trucks were run withing 80-90%macx GCWR they both had dead cylinders, the 7.3 wouldn't start on a cold morning unless you let it warm up ide say 3 or 4 times(and this is a 40 degree day), and she smoked and knocked like a you can hear the blow by in the cold until she warmed up. and the 6.4 truck went through 4 power plants withing 150,000miles.

I also drove a Chevy 4500 extended bed, for hauling trees an stone as well, the Duramax in that truck and the way it was set up i swear was way under powered, add a load of trees and a kubota tractor on a trailer GCW was about 26,000lbs and the truck rating was supposedly 28,000GCWR, and she seemed to lack the balls to accelerate, even when going into the parkway from a 40mph to 65.

While i like the dmax and PS for a race truck something you run to the 1/4 mile i don't think either can tow worth a dam, isn't that why Ford Uses a Cummins in the F-550 and up class?


My impressions towing with the 08


My first towing impressions were towing a 5th wheel camper from illonis to a dealership out here in jersey, and it was like WOW!:shock:

The new 6 speed auto allowed me to tow heavier camper and boats with the downshifting being less, and rare, compared to my 99 with 3.55's.

The heated seats and sat radio dual zone ac/heat, and larger quad cab also made a huge difference.

Power wise, even if it is 305 HP(or 350idr), the 4.10's and the 6 speed make up for it, ive towed boats and Campers that have put me onto the 30-33,000 GCW line and ive rarely felt the load once im going.

Hell ive towed campers so big that when i back into the truck stop at a Pilot or Loves i am the size of a tractor trailer, i have pictures somewhere of this massive camper attached to the 08.

the motor is alot quieter then the 99, and this truck can accelerate, when parked side by side the 08 will flat out knock my truck down when accelerating form 0-65. Even towing 10,000, or even 15,000lbs it still is a speed king, and that isn't even pedaling the pedal.

The exhaust brake and improved tow haul mode and selectable gear ranges are amazing compared to the older O/D lock out button.(the older trucks didn't have an EB as the tranny would fall apart, if you go with an older truck suggested EB like a PacBrake PXRB and a built auto).

But the Cummins can sure stop a heavy load as well, ive stopped some heavy boats and campers, and even slowing down with them is easier with the tow/Haul mode and EB on.

Downsides to the 6.7L

When i am not towing i get frequent CEL's usually when the weather gets to be over 80F, or i do not run with the EB on.

However place a load behind the truck and leave the EB on and you don't get any CEL's

Ive gotten good at how to pull and reset codes on my truck because ive limped home on some codes the only one that seems to ever show up is the 2262 code which is soot in the turbo, once again emissions related.

However i do NOT recommend you remove the emissions junk until you have issues and i means if you have issues.

Oddities

I have filled up with LSD in my 08 yes i know its illegal, but i needed diesel and the pilot only had LSD, anyways i was towing heavy GCW was prolly 26-27K and my 08 ate that diesel up and didn't complain (no CEL's etic), and i did get better mpg, however i do also note that its not recommended and could ruin something, but i though ide mention that.

the 4.10's are also over kill, unless you plan to tow big, if you are going to frequently tow 18,000lbs then 3.73's will be suffice, but ide say the 4.10's are worth it.

remember that 18K trailer wt+ 7,000 for truck= 25,000lbs max load for non-CDL driver, so if you go over you need that CDL!

That is what cracks me up about fords and chevy's they advertise ratings but include the truck with it:hehe: That or they use it by basing it on a truck with a GCW of 8,800, which subtract that from 25,000 and you get the max towing number, its all about wording anymore).

transmissions

The older 98-02's use a 47re transmission which was ok, a built auto is the only option for reliable hauling.

03-07 used a 48re, which supposedly was built stronger, but at the same time was crap, built auto needed/warranted.

starting in 07 the 6 speed Chrysler 68rfe was a totally reworked transmissions, which unlike its predecessors was built entirely just for the Cummins 6.7L. I have not reported any issues with my auto tranny, and i do follow the maintenance schedule to the dot.

If you need to idle, ide idle in Neutral (this is a must for any stock 47 or 48 transmission, but i don't know if the fluid circulates in park on the 68rfe's.

the 68rfe is supposedly a good built transmission from the get go, and will hold the stock cummins rated power and some more without issue.

Overall remember that stock trannys like higher rpm's, and ive found that once you hit the 1,600 rpm line they seem to live in fluid and don't have any issues, neither of my trucks do anyways, but that is because i keep the rpm's up to keep the vb line pressure up (on the older 47-48's, and i keep the practice up with the newer 08.



Mileage

My 99 5.9L gets about 17 empty, and the worst i see is 14 towing, and that was a 16,000lbs camper on a trip to Florida i should also note that i saw 15.5ish when towing in the Carolina's.

Also, the older 5.9L's love 2 stoke oil or a blend of B2 Bio Diesel. My 99 will take 1oz to the gallon, but if you have a CR 5.9l its more like 1/2 an ounce to the gallon.

Adding 2 stoke oil increase mileage especially on the older trucks pre02 diesels, the 03-07's like 2 stoke but its not as necessary.

Im in the middle of a B2 bio diesel test for mileage on my 99, so i have no numbers right now to fact support it.

My 99 got 18mpg highway with LSD, 14 with ULSD, and about 16-17 with 2 stoke oil, b2 Biodiesel unknown. But if the b2 does yield about the same a 2 stoke oil then i'll use the B2 as it has the same lubricity as HSD!

It is recommended to NOT add 2 stoke oil to any 6.7L motor, or 07.5 and up.

the 08 sees to fare 14mpg empty and 12-14 loaded, i have dipped below the 11 line but with improperly filled tires caused it, make sure your tires are full of air as your mileage can jump up to 3mpgh as i have seen.

My 8 runs just fine on B2-B5 Bio diesel that loves truck stops have, i have yet to report any issues but a slightly better mileage with the B2-B5 blend then regular dino, not sure as to why yet however.

Conclusion

While i love the new truck for its power and abilities i also hate the emissions, i can see a 400hp stock 6.7L if the emissions were gone, but that is what i like abou7t my 99. and for all facts the 08 is not worth driving around if your not towing heavy.

I tow alot more with my 99 since a majority of my towing loads are under the 13,000 line and the 08 is not worth dragging out for anything that light, however the 08 does see severe service considering that it has 90% highway miles, and of that 90% ide say a good 70% are used towing loads between 13,000lbs and 26,000lbs of weight.

However weather i am towing a 13,000lbs camper or a 26,000lbs hydro, trailer with a 30 foot boat on it my 08 takes it like its not even there, i mean yea you can feel the 26,000lbs but at the same time the truck doesn't struggle to get the load going, or even keep it up there. Yes it accelerates slower, but its will keep accelerating without worry.

something that my 99 couldn't do, and i'll admit it, my 99 couldn't tow half o the loads the 08 does, but then again if i invested the money into the 99 i think it could.


The last thing i should add is that the Cummins motor still has the low end torque, i can go along and haul 26,000lbs in 6th gear at 1,600rpms' and know im putting all 650lbs of torque to the wheels. I can also accelerate towing that load while in 6h or even if i drop it to 5th for the extra HP at a higher rpm's.


If you check out the towing hauling section there is a thread of pictures of trucks with their loads, there are a few guys who have show 40,000lbs GCW on their 08's, weather its its railroad tries, or boats well worth flipping through the picts.





I hope that this post is somewhat useful, and feel free to ask questions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,943 Posts
When I was at the dealership I was told that most of the guys with diesels in there do some kind of transport. He said one of their customers has an 08 with 214k miles on it. To start off i'm probably going to buy used. Forget the Ford, i'm a Ford man but I can't trust the 6.0 or the 6.4. I've seen a few 08's on autotrader across the state I might go look at it. What's a fair price for a used QCLB dually with say 0-50k and 50-100k miles?
Here's one I found: Truck Details - 270722400 - AutoTrader.com Seem fair enough?
I can tell you that i see far more dodges hauling 3/45 car haulers around then i do fords or Chevys,a nd i mean by a long shot.

Same goes with campers etic, if i do see fords usually they are heavily modified 6.0's or older 7.3's.


Ide go with an 08, because i love the built in GPS navigation in the middle, we got our 08 back in November of of 08(i think) and we got it for a steal of 38,K with only 16 miles on the Odometer.


That 07 you pointed out looks clean and it looks to be pre-emissiosn which is rare, but i don't think the 5.9's from 07 came with the 6 speed, but i could be wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
97 Posts
When I was at the dealership I was told that most of the guys with diesels in there do some kind of transport. He said one of their customers has an 08 with 214k miles on it. To start off i'm probably going to buy used. Forget the Ford, i'm a Ford man but I can't trust the 6.0 or the 6.4. I've seen a few 08's on autotrader across the state I might go look at it. What's a fair price for a used QCLB dually with say 0-50k and 50-100k miles?
Here's one I found: Truck Details - 270722400 - AutoTrader.com Seem fair enough?
I was a Ford man too. I still have one with the 7.3L engine. After the 7.3L went out, so did I.

The truck in your link appears to be a good deal.

Try the link below for a used Ram too. The 5.9L trucks are bringing a premium price though. That is what folks in the used market are all looking for. I was looking for a 5.9L myself but I got a great deal on the truck in my sig.

CarMax - Browse used cars and new cars online

Their prices are a no haggle price. What you see is what you pay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Thank you guys so much and thank you pepsi for the long post. VERY informative. I have always thought the Cummins to be an extremely reliable engine it's just the truck around it I have a problem with. I don't really care for luxury items, however, since i'm going to be driving this all over, i'd like to be comfortable as possible. Comfortable seats, power windows and locks, power tow mirrors, and a navigation system is all i'm really after. I'll look for a used 08 model right away.

EDIT: Down South, thanks for the carmax link. I didn't even think to check them. Good thing I did, I found this 08 Mega Cab....http://www.carmax.com/enUS/view-car...&pT=400&pC=200&pB=0&No=0&Ep=homepage:homepage

Is the towing capacity reduced because of the MC? I think it's worth what they're asking for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,943 Posts
Thank you guys so much and thank you pepsi for the long post. VERY informative. I have always thought the Cummins to be an extremely reliable engine it's just the truck around it I have a problem with. I don't really care for luxury items, however, since i'm going to be driving this all over, i'd like to be comfortable as possible. Comfortable seats, power windows and locks, power tow mirrors, and a navigation system is all i'm really after. I'll look for a used 08 model right away.

EDIT: Down South, thanks for the carmax link. I didn't even think to check them. Good thing I did, I found this 08 Mega Cab....2008 Dodge RAM 3500 SLT in Greensboro, NC- 6596487 at carmax.com

Is the towing capacity reduced because of the MC? I think it's worth what they're asking for it.
that doesn't have the built in navigation, the ones that do have a 6 inch tv screen in the middle where that smaller radio is, but i am quite sure you can get it put into the truck. the centers where they have a huge screen, like a double DIn insert, i might go take a picture of our 08,

Although if it has sat radio already your in the right step, i use sat radio in both of my trucks when hauling, there is just no alternative to the dead zones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Ya. The 2010 I sat in yesterday had all the bells and whistles. Built in navi and I like it had sat radio too. Do the Mega Cabs tow just as much?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,943 Posts
Ya. The 2010 I sat in yesterday had all the bells and whistles. Built in navi and I like it had sat radio too. Do the Mega Cabs tow just as much?
i think the mega cab is only useful if your goign to use it as a bed, or to be able to lay your chair down, i find that is its only use besides storage, but i think they subtract the weight of the mega cab from the tow weight.

But one must rememebr that if you register commercial(as in for your business) then DOT only cares that you don't exceed the axle and tire ratings, if you don't break either they don;t care.

This is why most 1 ton's ie 3500's class are used by alot of towing companies because they are rated heavy enough on the axles.

So technically the mega cab detracts from your axles capacity because its more weight in the truck, but FYIO i haven't been scaled by SOT yet in a long time. they go after guys in 1500 class truck trying to tow over sized campers and safty issue etic stuff, or the trucker running illegals or arms up the interstate, etic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I was told today that I can't qualify for a Class A CDL because the truck is only rated at 25,400 #'s. I was told I could drive this truck with the proper weighted plates but I can't get the Class A because it's 600#'s short of the 26,001 needed to get one. What the hell is up with that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,943 Posts
I was told today that I can't qualify for a Class A CDL because the truck is only rated at 25,400 #'s. I was told I could drive this truck with the proper weighted plates but I can't get the Class A because it's 600#'s short of the 26,001 needed to get one. What the hell is up with that?
you don't need a truck to get a CDl, you need oen to pass the road test.

If you really wanted to turn some screws you can get a 4500 or 5500 Dodge ram CC, they are rated above the 25,000 line. and then technically you could use that truck to qualify, OR you can have a rating shop re rate the truck to a higher rating then the factory, which would cost mor money IMHO.

i went and applied for a CDL through a trucking school, they did all the work, supplied the truck for the test, and then got me the 6 month of experience needed, once you get on the other side your good to go insurance wise, if you get a CDL on your own you would need to borrow someone who has a truck that has a GCW of 25,000 or more, a tow truck for example. or if your goign for air brakes endorsement a simple tractor and a short trailer works, s long as the weight rating is over that needed for a CDL in the sate you reside in, for example new jersey is 24,999lbs or 25,001, depends on ratings, jersey is weird, but in jersey you need a truck similar to what your going to use, so if your driving a propane truck then you need a ClassB with hazmat, minimum, however you must bring a dump truck or empty propane truck to your test, you can't use a Tractor trailer.

all the CDL does is cover your if you are ver over the 24,900lbs line (athough some states differ some say 26,000 some as low as 24,000.

And you don't need it if your not breaking the line, well your company would be fined if you hired your self as a driver, and not the boss.

if your serious about hauling heavy loads its worth bumping to the 4500 or 5500 class of truck for the sake of ratings, but obviously DOT only really cares about axle ratings, that is why i had to go 50% on the new truck, some of the boats tow with the 5th wheel hydro trailer can definitely pass the 7,000lbs per say for the axle on the 99, and with a stock tranny there is no way a truck shop would re certify a truck for a higher axle and GCWR without serious upgrades to the trucks internals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Toms994x4
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top