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HELP 50hp nozzle install = lost power??

2606 Views 12 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  Ram'n It
Hey guys, Im kind of new to the diesel world and i need a little help. I've done all the searching I could and I cant find what i'm looking for.... So any info would be awesome!!



I bought a used 2004 (305hp) 2500 cummins. It was all stock when I got it. It has 196000 miles on it. Don't know a hole lot about the service records. I do know it was a work truck with a service contract.. (I called the shop that did all the work and the a$$ [email protected] told me he cant give that info out, he said "its like medical info I cant give out")!!!!!



Anyways I put 4in diamond eye turbo back exhaust on it, installed the home made big honkin air filter kit (the big cat dozer filter) and took out all the silencers and installed a EZ Edge programmer.

The truck ran and pulled my car trailer awesome!!! It was very fast for only having a few things done to it.



I now ended up getting a set of DDP 50 hp nozzles for it. I did buy them used, but the guy I got them from seemed very respectful and honest. He was even going to help me put them in. I didn't take him up on the help thinking I could handle it no problems... (i own a performance shop mainly gas engines, so i am mechanically inclined). I did get the ddp directions off line and i also got a dodge service manual from the local dodge dealer..



The first problem i noticed is when I took out the supply tubes. On the back 3 tube's nuts holding them in the head where kind of damp looking and more rusty than the front 3... When I pulled the front 3 tubes out of the head a very small amount of fuel drained out of the head (i would say it was what was left in the injector or the tube when i pulled the tub off the injector). the back 3 tubes had at least twice as much if not 3 times the amount of the front 3... I don't think it was supposed to be like that???



The second and biggest problem is after i put the injectors in the truck feels slower and like the truck is working harder to pull my car trailer. I did EVERY THING BY THE BOOK AND DDP DIRECTIONS!! I took my time and kept every thing clean. I got new copper washer and new o-rings for the transfer tubes. I looked over the tubes and the 50hp nozzles for cracks, and made sure every thing was right. I made sure the holes on the injectors was lined up to the nozzles and the hole on the injector was lined up to the transfer tube. I did every thing just like the directions said!! The truck did idle a little rough before i put the nozzles in (about the same as other people say how 3rd gens idle). After i put the 50hp nozzles in it idled perfect. It dose now smoke a little on cold start up ( i think that's because of the bigger nozzles), but goes away after a few min.

I've been driving it for a few days now and it seems to be idling a little rougher now and still low on power. I don't know what to do next... Could it be one of the pumps?? I know my truck has the up dated lift pump from dodge (i have no idea how old it is or miles). Or could it be the high psi pump?? or the nozzles are junk?? or dose it go back to the transfer tubes?? I don't have any gauges yet to help me out.. The truck also doesn't blow any smoke when to the floor.. I know it shouldn't do it a lot with only the ez edge, but i thought with the 50 hp nozzles it would have a light haze to it. I can almost say it had a bigger puff before i put the nozzles in!!! The truck has no codes. The fuel mileage seemed to stay the same as well.

if any thing rings a bell let me know.:banghead:
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Well, the first thing you need to do is get some guages. Second thing is the stock fuel pump isn't going to get enough fuel to those injectors. The edge will make your truck smoke very well if your getting enough fuel. Mine did. You sould be smoking very well when you get on it. If not, then I would do a fuel pressure test. You probably need a fuel pump, IE.. Fass, or Air Dog.
 

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A couple problems here that I would like to point out.



NEVER EVER EVER buy something used just going by the word of mouth that what your buying is ok. If your buying something used... especially injectors and you dont know alot about them, do some research about them and send them back to the manufacturer to get tested!!!!! Unknowing to the previous owner there could be problems with the tips and he or you dont know about it and you just set yourself up for a motor failure


The common rail injector is a delicate piece of work. If your truck is an 03 or early 04 you need a nozzle ending with the number 1058. (8 hole tips)1058’s fit any common rail that does not have a 600 or a 610 rating for torque. You will find that rating on the drivers side of the black plastic valve cover. If your truck is a late 04-07 any nozzle ending with 1309 or 1659 will work. (5 hole tips) 04-07 will be rated @ 600 or 610ft lbs. The spray angle is different between 03-04, 04.5-07. Putting the wrong or damaged injectors in will lead to engine failure. Gaurenteed. You can take my personal experiance on that or find User OnTheRocks, he put the wrong nozzles in his and melted it down.


Now ive read that some companys like ddp updated to a 5hole tip for the early 04's and they didnt run that great, some ran fine.. either way I would have sent those tips off to get cleaned and inspected.
 

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and finally, gauges.. rail pressure is in question here. I know some guys can run nozzles on a stock cp3's, some cant. Thats the glory of the commonrail. What works for guy A might not be the same for guy B. Condition and wear/tear play a big role.

Either way if you find rail pressure running a bit low, that could explain the laggyness or the problem could lay in the factory lift pump. Easiest way to test the lift pump would be to 'T' in a mechanical fuel pressure gauge between the lift pump and cp3. When running at WOT the pressure shouldnt drop significantly, especially to zero.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yea i did know about the 1058 nozzles. I did make sure that they ended in 1058. I didnt know you could send them back to be checked....? Trust me i would have done that! I know every truck is different, but i didnt read any one that had problems with a stock lift pump and 50hp nozzles? Would it make it worse that i have the ez edge in with them?? I think the ez edge in my years just raises the rail psi?? and no timing??
any one have any pic of the t in line for the fuel gauge or any links with more info??
 

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Yea i did know about the 1058 nozzles. I did make sure that they ended in 1058. I didnt know you could send them back to be checked....? Trust me i would have done that! I know every truck is different, but i didnt read any one that had problems with a stock lift pump and 50hp nozzles? Would it make it worse that i have the ez edge in with them?? I think the ez edge in my years just raises the rail psi?? and no timing??
any one have any pic of the t in line for the fuel gauge or any links with more info??
Ez raises pressure, tax's the cp3 for more fuel wich in return places more demand on the lift pump. Its a chain reaction.

The 'T' for a fuel pressure gauge is simple. Just remove a section of line, cut it and place a T inline, using banjo fittings and rubber fuel line to re attach the line. Make sure the rubber line is rated for 30+ psi and you'll have no problems. Off of the 'T' tie in the fuel pressure sensor and run the wires up to a gauge. Thats for a perminent install. you could always run something different for a more temporary fix if you feel the need.

and finally, yes you can send the nozzles in to get checked for cracks, scars ect ect. They are bench tested for flow and inspected for damage. At operating pressures of up to 26,500 psi there isnt much room for error with the nozzles. 4 of mine bench tested bad for scratches I could barely see where the fuel had washed the needle for some reason
 

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Its just cheap insurance to pull them and have them checked especially if your mechanically inclined. Its 3 hours of your time and just get ahold of dynomite and send em in. I'd hate to see another user follow OnTheRocks or my footsteps and burn a motor down :doh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
also what about the banjo bolt the is on the feed line that bolts up to the high psi pump. I see some people are buying a new banjo bolt that has a hole drilled and taped in to it. can i do this to mine? then i can hook up my gauge and drive it around with it on. or is that a special bolt they use???
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok.. tested the lift pump psi... It was at about 6 at idle, and just loading it in gear not moving it would go down to about 5 maybe 4.... I guess that means the lift pump is bad.. Y did the truck run fine before I put the 50 hp nozzles in, and now it is bad (it felt slower the first time out of the shop not a few miles or days later)????? And any one have any idea about the transfer tubes??

Thanks for the help!!!
 

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you had stock tips before, now you have bigger tips, and the fuel demand is larger, your lift pump is weak, and you didn't notice it with stock tips. you are now seeing that its weak. i would be willing to bet thah your CP3 pump will be next with the mileage you have. it never ends realy, 1 thing leads to other thing, and your wallet will empty, but its so much fun!!!
 

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From what I understand, get a fass 150 or air dog 150 and a Arson 3 kit from wicked diesel and have your injectors checked. Then you can do what ever and know that your pump will give you all the fuel you will need. I'm doing a fass 95/150, Arson 3, and 90hp injectors in that order, just so I don't go through what your going through. Just like pullinhard said, 1 thing leads to another. But before you squirt more fuel, you have to make sure your getting enough first.
 
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