[CJ68]

Read my yammering below and tell me some real world experience with this cam and share some opinions.

My truck's current setup is in my signature. I am looking to get a little more EGT control when towing. I can almost tow my 7K trailer everywhere I want to go with the cruise control set as fast as I ever need to go. (70mph @ 2,000rpm). Yeah going to a compound setup would be pretty awesome but my OCD would have me doing more supporting mods at more cost.

Right now I am thinking of upgrading my stock manifold to a Stainless Diesel manifold and installing the full up $1500 Hamilton 178/208 Cam kit with the 165lb springs, pushrods, tappets. I am thinking that would at the very least keep my butt dyno as happy as it is now while lowering those EGT's. I know that the turbine side of my little turbo is what is holding me back but if I could just get a little bit more out of it while staying in the turbo's flow map, I think I could be pretty happy.

The alternative is going with something like a Crazy Carl's 472 over stock kit (hoping the K27 really is a direct swap from an HX35...). Originally I was set on the PDD towing twins but I feel better long term if the hot pipe is made of stainless vs. mild steel. Going compounds would cost me at least another $1K over just the cam swap and would add the desire/need to upgrade more stuff in the fuel system and further down the rabbit hole I go.

I don't feel like I need/want more of a hot rod so I am leaning pretty far away from compounds. And if I do want compounds in the future the cam can only make it better right?

 

[RamCumminsRob]

Stock cam is pretty good.
Replace if worn out imo.
What tire size and gears are you running?

 

[Stox225]

Port and polish and get the K27.


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[CJ68]

235/85-16 so just shy of a 32" tire.
3.55 gear. Do not want to go lower than that. 2000rpm at 70mph is good. Would not want to rev it more. Wish I had more than 4 gears in the trans though.

I already have the K27. I don't plan on porting and polishing. Swapping in a 75,000 mile motor this winter and not even taking the head off. My current 145,000 mile motor has taken all that the K27 can throw at it with just installing head studs one at a time so that is the plan for the new motor. Old motor has a cracked block. It was probayike that when I bought the truck. I would consider having the head gone through and o-ringed if there was a shop local to me that could do it. That way it is done for something more in the future. But I looked around and couldn't find anyone that I would drive to.

 

[Drothgeb]

You won’t pick up any power with the manifold, and you will likely lose power with the cam. If you stay with just the K27, not much to be gained by porting the head. But, if you go with K27/472 compounds, definitely at least pocket port the head (skip the cam). Makes no difference whether the hot pipe is stainless or mild steel. I prefer wrapped ceramic coated mild steel.

 

[CJ68]

Not really expecting to pick up any power with an aftermarket manifold. Swapping out the manifold is more a preventative measure before I crack the stock one. All manifolds say they can lower EGT's. Not banking on that but if it dropped EGT 10-20 degrees that is better than nothing.

I have nothing to go by yet on the cam other then hamilton's description and they make it sound like it improves the VE of the engine in the RPM range that I care about. What makes you think I would loose power when installing it? You think I am already at the limit of the K27's turbine housing? Even at RPM's below 2500? Hamilton's claims pass the stupid test. For example, they seem logical when they say that the reduced overlap reduces exhaust reversion on engines with higher drive/boost pressure ratios. It makes me think that they know what they are talking about at least.

As far as mild steel exhaust parts vs. stainless. This is my 1st diesel vehicle but ceramic coated mild steel hasn't impressed me much in vehicles that are a few years old since being built. Corrosion and heat stress cracking have been issues that I have seen. I have no experience with turbo hot pipes yet but on non-turbo exhaust systems, where mild steel parts simply did not stand the test of time, the stainless components that I have invested in or fabricated are going strong after 10+ years. I am having a hard time finding real world experiences with any of these compound kits that have been in service for a good long while. So I am hedging my bets on going overkill up front.

 

[GAmes]

I live fairly close to Bertram, TX and went by the Hamilton shop asking for engine build costs. My cam is a Piers Diesel "Quickspool" (no longer offered). I was told there that Piers stole the grind from Hamilton, something I can't confirm or refute. Unfortunately Piers did not publish the specs of his cam, but if there is any truth to the claim made at Hamilton I might have the cam you are considering. When the identical cam was installed in my first engine I experienced a gain in mileage and decreased EGTs, as much as 200 degrees at WOT. There was no loss of power according to the dyno, but there wasn't any gain either. If it is in fact the same grind there is no need for the 165lb springs, pushrods, and tappets, unless you plan on really high rpm driving.

 

[CJ68]

Thanks for your input.

I did some google searching and found a thread where it appeared that the OP was doing real world testing of the 178/208 cam for Hamilton. Based on his reports it sounds like I wouldn't really regret installing it. He claims it really woke up the low end and was falling flat before 3000K RPM. I am rarely into the throttle enough to cause the trans to hold a shift past 2500rpm as it is. If I could drop the EGT's about 200* when climbing a hill at around 2000RPM that would make me pretty happy. Whether or not that drop in EGT's is real or not? It looks promising but there are so many variables. It would have to be taken on faith. Even with no EGT drop I might still be pretty happy if I get an even bigger grin on my face than I already do while driving around town.

As far Upgrading the springs beyond the 60# springs which would lead to the pushrods and tappets as well? You're probably right. However if I am honest I am looking for excuses to install them anyway. I like knowing that I have a good amount of overhead in components and am not running anything near their operating limit. Reading Hamilton's marketing claims about the 165 lb springs compared to the typical 60lb spring make sense. Based on their claims, my 35-ish psi peak boost is on the edge of what the 60lb springs can control and I know my drive pressures are up there, they have to be. I am also reading that Hamilton's ramp rates can be pretty aggressive. I got the 60lb springs initially because I plan on getting an exhaust brake and now I am wondering if upping the spring rate further is not a bad idea.

If I am being honest with myself, I know that if I don't sell the truck before I get bored, it will get compounds on it. If I did the springs, pushrods, etc. now then I wouldn't need to later. The wild card there is not pulling the head and o-ringing it before compounds. I don't plan on exceeding 60psi with compounds so it shouldn't need O-rings but I defer back to my OCD to not run things near their limit. No one local can O-ring a 12V head. By time I ship a head to a shop both ways, I could just buy a new Chinese head and ship to my door O-ringed and ported. So far I have seen good reviews even though they are Chinese knock offs.

I typically have some small amount buyer's remorse when I go too far with the overkill on parts I don't need. But I also like that feeling of security when I am out using what I have built. I almost always regret not going the extra step in a build and end up kicking myself for not doing that extra bit in the first place. Doing it once is always cheaper than doing it twice.

 

[GAmes]

I don't plan on exceeding 60psi with compounds so it shouldn't need O-rings but I defer back to my OCD to not run things near their limit.

I guess you didn't get the memo. High boost doesn't blow head gaskets. Think about it. Considering the couple thousand psi created during the fuel's detonation what difference would an extra 30 psi of boost make? It is the other mods that blow HGs, mostly the increased timing that is required to totally burn increased fueling.

 

[CJ68]

Yeah... I know an extra 30psi would not blow the head gasket... 60psi just seams to be a generic number thrown around on the limit before you should consider o-rings. Did you get the memo? Boost is just s sign of restriction...

As you stated it is the other variables that change if you are running a 60psi+ compounds setup. Odds are with how I want to use my engine with a compound setup and the anticipated reduced drive pressure I probably never see over 45psi. But my concerns would be the higher cylinder pressures using all the air that the compounds can deliver under 2000rpm. As it is now, I smile the most when I pull from around 1500-2000rpm in OD with the converter locked.

 

[Nascar]

I live fairly close to Bertram, TX and went by the Hamilton shop asking for engine build costs. My cam is a Piers Diesel "Quickspool" (no longer offered). I was told there that Piers stole the grind from Hamilton, something I can't confirm or refute. Unfortunately Piers did not publish the specs of his cam, but if there is any truth to the claim made at Hamilton I might have the cam you are considering. When the identical cam was installed in my first engine I experienced a gain in mileage and decreased EGTs, as much as 200 degrees at WOT. There was no loss of power according to the dyno, but there wasn't any gain either. If it is in fact the same grind there is no need for the 165lb springs, pushrods, and tappets, unless you plan on really high rpm driving.

That's a bunch of BS right there. I have all the spec's & drawing of our cams even today. GAmes, not sure who told you that but I'm positive it wasn't Zack that told you that. Next time you go to Hamilton's shop, you tell who ever the idiot was that told you that, he doesn't know his a** from a hole in the ground !!! We were designing & testing cams when Zack was still wet behind the ears. As a matter of fact Zack came up & stayed a week at our shop back around 2004. I personally tested 3 different ones in my engine at least a year before he came up to Canada. We already had done all our testing & had cams on the market for 1st ten & 2nd gen & 3rd gen.

Truth be known, around 2007 Zack started dealing with Geoff at Colt Cams who was working with us on the cams from the get go & once I found out about it & was lied to, I cut ties with Geoff & never sold parts to Zack again. Don't know if Zack personally knew what had transpired with Geoff but the damage was done. Then Zack & Geoff had a falling out, hence maybe that's were the BS is coming from at Hamilton's shop.

I took our grind to a different grinder after that but once I left PDR & the owner changed the next day, the cam program died, as know one at PDR knew anything about the cams. My rural location doesn't make it feasible to have carried on with the cams.

That's the facts.

 

[CJ68]

I took our grind to a different grinder after that but once I left PDR & the owner changed the next day, the cam program died, as know one at PDR knew anything about the cams. My rural location doesn't make it feasible to have carried on with the cams.

That's the facts.

Nascar, if you are not in the cam business anymore and therefore no longer have a competition conflict. Can you offer some knowledge on the subject and tell me if I am barking up the wrong tree or not? I think I made it pretty clear how I use the truck and what I am looking for. Ignore the noise of me dreaming of compounds setup some day in the future.

 

[Nascar]

For what you are wanting to do, run your stock cam...no need for any other valve train parts other than HD valve spring that can be had for $100

 

[GAmes]

That's a bunch of BS right there. I have all the spec's & drawing of our cams even today. GAmes, not sure who told you that but I'm positive it wasn't Zack that told you that. Next time you go to Hamilton's shop, you tell who ever the idiot was that told you that, he doesn't know his a** from a hole in the ground !!! We were designing & testing cams when Zack was still wet behind the ears. As a matter of fact Zack came up & stayed a week at our shop back around 2004. I personally tested 3 different ones in my engine at least a year before he came up to Canada. We already had done all our testing & had cams on the market for 1st ten & 2nd gen & 3rd gen.

Truth be known, around 2007 Zack started dealing with Geoff at Colt Cams who was working with us on the cams from the get go & once I found out about it & was lied to, I cut ties with Geoff & never sold parts to Zack again. Don't know if Zack personally knew what had transpired with Geoff but the damage was done. Then Zack & Geoff had a falling out, hence maybe that's were the BS is coming from at Hamilton's shop.

I took our grind to a different grinder after that but once I left PDR & the owner changed the next day, the cam program died, as know one at PDR knew anything about the cams. My rural location doesn't make it feasible to have carried on with the cams.

That's the facts.

Thanks. It was spring of 2012 that I went there. The cam was unavailable soon after that. I've never gone back because I don't like businesses that promote themselves by denigrating a competitor. Not sure, but IIRC the person I talked to was Zach's brother. It was a long time ago.

I really like the Quickspool though. For my commercially used engine it is perfect. I would like to know the specs in case I ever need to build another towing engine.

 

[Nascar]

Sorry GAmes...not going to happen. Nothing against you at all but what has been paid for in sweat & $ stays as is.

 

[GAmes]

Sorry GAmes...not going to happen. Nothing against you at all but what has been paid for in sweat & $ stays as is.

I understand proprietary, but publishing the lift and duration is the norm in the after market cam world. I guess I'll have to wait until I disassemble the engine and measure the one I have.

 

[Stox225]

Truth be known, around 2007 Zack started dealing with Geoff at Colt Cams who was working with us on the cams from the get go & once I found out about it & was lied to, I cut ties with Geoff & never sold parts to Zack again. Don't know if Zack personally knew what had transpired with Geoff but the damage was done. Then Zack & Geoff had a falling out, hence maybe that's were the BS is coming from at Hamilton's shop.

Did Colt screw you over?? I’m like Gary where I only give my business to good people in this industry. I’m running their “Big Stick” and love it. Geoff seemed like I nice guy to do business with. This was back in 2016.



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[Nascar]

I'm not going to get into the politic's of things but ya. Karma will take care of things in the long run. I have nothing against Zack at all. He asked & Geoff jumped. Now look where that got Geoff.
Anyways, the cam deal was like the tranny stuff of the old days. Nothing good comes out of all the arguing. Cheers

 

[Stox225]

Dang. Well that’s annoying. Karma always comes around.


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[CJ68]

Well I am finding a pretty even split on opinions of whether or not to bother with a this cam upgrade. I think I found a worth while risk to take unless I hear some convincing arguments to not do it.

Colt Cams offers a regrind of the stock cam to their stage 2 175/210 and it appears to be comparable to the the Hamilton in desired effect while being more budget friendly. I'll get the cam reground, install a gear retainer, and get some new tappets to ensure a smooth break in. I'll save the pushrod and spring upgrade for if/when I add that S472 under the K27.

An entirely different beast yes but I had the cams in my N/A Subaru 2.5L reground years ago and was pretty happy with the end result. I can't see much of a reason why it would hurt anything.