Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all. I'm new here and am researching my truck purchase. I have narrowed it to the 2013+ Ram 3500 and the 2013+ Chevy 3500. Both seem to have advantages but I don't know the technical stuff, the differences between them as far as performance, maintenance, reliability, etc.

I will regularly tow ~20,000 pounds on a gooseneck trailer. The truck will be 4WD. I also prefer a flat bed.

I'm leaning toward the Ram as the Cummins has such a good reputation. I have always preferred a manual transmission but I noticed that the motor is detuned a bit with a G56 installed compared to the Aisin. Is there a weakness in the manual transmission?

How do the Aisin and the Allison compare?

What kind of mileage can I expect in an unloaded condition? Does the manual outperform the automatic in this spec?

Thank you all. This forum is a wealth of knowledge. I haven't yet mastered the search well enough to find the above information so I thought I would ask.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Wait, one more.

I just found that the cab and chassis are detuned. Since I was looking for a flat bed, which would be a C&C, I would be getting a lower HP motor. Why did they do that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
Hello all. I'm new here and am researching my truck purchase. I have narrowed it to the 2013+ Ram 3500 and the 2013+ Chevy 3500. Both seem to have advantages but I don't know the technical stuff, the differences between them as far as performance, maintenance, reliability, etc.

I will regularly tow ~20,000 pounds on a gooseneck trailer. The truck will be 4WD. I also prefer a flat bed.

I'm leaning toward the Ram as the Cummins has such a good reputation. I have always preferred a manual transmission but I noticed that the motor is detuned a bit with a G56 installed compared to the Aisin. Is there a weakness in the manual transmission?

How do the Aisin and the Allison compare?

What kind of mileage can I expect in an unloaded condition? Does the manual outperform the automatic in this spec?

Thank you all. This forum is a wealth of knowledge. I haven't yet mastered the search well enough to find the above information so I thought I would ask.
Definitely go with the Aisin out of those two options, much more power than the manual. As far as the comparison between the Allison towing they both are stellar but empty the Allison blows the Aisin away. Much smoother and less clunky feeling. If your talking the new 10 speed Allison I feel like it would tow better and be much better empty as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,458 Posts
Wait, one more.

I just found that the cab and chassis are detuned. Since I was looking for a flat bed, which would be a C&C, I would be getting a lower HP motor. Why did they do that?
C&C is most used by fleets/commercial/etc and lower power means less stress on components so supposed to last longer I guess.

How long of a flatbed do you want? If not more than 9 foot, then buy a pickup and take the bed off and sell it, put a flatbed on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
I have a g56 truck I tow over 26k on a regular. Like others have said the clutch is the weak link and WILL fail if your towing heavy with it. It’s because of the dual mass flywheel which is what failed on mine within about 6k miles of heavy towing. Other thing is they run hot without a cooler so I installed a cooler and changed the fluid from atf4 to Castrol syntrans. Also the reverse gear is ridiculously tall and is horrible trying to back a trailer up with. Also I don’t tow in 6th (OD) so that affects my mpgs. I like the control of the manual but if I had to choose I would go with a Aisin. Just know if you plan on putting a tuner on you won’t be able throw much extra power at the truck because no tuning is available for the Aisin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
A local dealer is advertising new, year-old, vinyl-interior trucks for $44,000, Now I'm more paralyzed. A 2014 with 100,000 miles for $32 or a new one for $44. Dang.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,458 Posts
A local dealer is advertising new, year-old, vinyl-interior trucks for $44,000, Now I'm more paralyzed. A 2014 with 100,000 miles for $32 or a new one for $44. Dang.
Keep looking, better deals are out there.

Widen your search area.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,980 Posts
don't buy a 2013 3500. there were many that had the track bar bracket frame recall; mine being one of them.
i would go 2014 or newer if going used
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,218 Posts
As said, the Aisin will outperform the G, and 20klbs is alot but plenty that do it behind a G56.
Mileage difference empty will be not much, but for that weight you'd want 4.10s and highway cruising with the G56 and 3.73s or lower gears is much higher rpms than any of the newer automatics run at. Won't hurt nothing, but it is a bit annoying (I have G56 and 3.73s).

The biggest reason to get the G56 is if you ever wanted a new manual trans tow rig, this is literally your last chance.
I have no qualms with towing with the G56, actually prefer it in the mountains to the recent 6 speed autos I've had in Chevys and Ford gassers. Rest of the time, the auto wins for convenience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,157 Posts
Also, 4WD has a lower tow rating, do you really need 4WD?

They cost more, they weigh more, and take more maintenance.
The only reason the 4WD has a lower tow-rating is because of tha magical, mystical, mostly made-up GCWR rating.

Look at the numbers. The 4WD is rated to pull exactly less than what it weighs over the 2WD.

If you're a pro, like you are, I wouldn't have a 4WD drive, either. Just more stuff to break but for the average shmoe, you will more than get back what you you spend on the 4WD.

In fact, I routinely see 2WD Super Duty's, Chevys and Dodge/Rams rotting in the back of discount buy here/pay here junk lots that nobody wants. Can't give 'em away.

A used 4WD Ram?

Gold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,306 Posts
The only reason the 4WD has a lower tow-rating is because of tha magical, mystical, mostly made-up GCWR rating.

Look at the numbers. The 4WD is rated to pull exactly less than what it weighs over the 2WD.

If you're a pro, like you are, I wouldn't have a 4WD drive, either. Just more stuff to break but for the average shmoe, you will more than get back what you you spend on the 4WD.

In fact, I routinely see 2WD Super Duty's, Chevys and Dodge/Rams rotting in the back of discount buy here/pay here junk lots that nobody wants. Can't give 'em away.

A used 4WD Ram?

Gold.
100 % Correct...........
 

·
Avatarless
Joined
·
4,002 Posts
I can't speak for the aisin, but I'd be hard pressed to prefer the 68RFE over the modern Allison. I absolutely love my 2015 2500....but my trans is literally tongue tied when empty. With my 32' trailer and a couple tractors everything shifts fine, firm and seemingly ok. Take the trailer off and it literally feels like it doesn't know what gear to be in. I'm getting close to finally purchasing trans programming....I was waiting on the emissions system to fail so I could delete and do trans tuning at the same time, but its still working fine. Everyone I know with the Aisin says its just fine as does everyone I know with the Allison....they are both good transmissions when used for what they were designed for.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,838 Posts
With a little love the G56 is a great option.

As stated the clutch is the weak point. Ram opted for quiet, car-like operation over strength.

Put a solid flywheel clutch in it and you’ll be happier than a pig in you know what. Engine tuning is just that, tuning. It can be changed and upped.

I’ve owned multiple G56 rigs and one 68RFE truck. Unloaded in the city the 68 owns the day. Towing, the G56 is awesome. For the Aisin, I’ll let you know when I get my new truck. Waiting on my 19 to be delivered.

That said, what I’m really getting at is buy what you think suits you best. Drive both and then decide. The G56 has the same motor as all the other configurations. Tuning is the difference. I loved towing with my G56 trucks that had a good dual disk clutch behind them. 20-21k was what I was pulling. They performed admirably. I’d still be driving my G56 truck if it wasn’t totaled.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I drove the G56 and I think it’s great. Reverse is too tall but that’s curable with the transfer case. It shifted great and was really nice to drive - as a new one should be. The problem was I could only find it in a C&C. I want the regular PU.

So I bought one with the Aisin, my first automatic truck. I’m feeling a little guilty but I reckon that will go away after I work it a bit.

Anybody have any break-in tips?

Thanks, gentlemen. I appreciate the help.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top