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If you want real-life numbers, my daily commute is 21 miles round-trip. If I drive my truck, it slurps about $3.10 in diesel. If I take the race car, it'll gulp $3.75 of super unleaded. The Bavarian Golf Cart EV that I bought in May costs me $0.52/day in electrons (@ $0.15/kWh).

My DW's 94 mile round-trip commute was costing her $20.00/day in gas driving her V6 Dakota 6-speed. Her new Kia Niro EV that she bought in June is costing us $3.70/day in electricity. Our combined EV electric usage every month is the equivalent of 4 days of our former gas/diesel spending. I could give a crap less about going green to save the planet...but saving a lot of green in my pocket every month is a different story!



Actually, an EV is the mother-of-all flex-fuel vehicles. It can run on gasoline, diesel, coal, nuclear, solar, hydro, natural gas, garbage, and even cow flatulence. :wink2: Seriously though, check out the percentage graphs for the current sources of electricity in most areas today. At least here in NY State, coal use in making electricity is negligible and more than half of our power comes from hydro and nuclear.

Don't get me wrong, there's still two ICE vehicles in my driveway for hauling things and road trips. I will most certainly be driving my truck on snowy/icy days, and it is my go-to choice in case of an emergency evacuation of our area.....
Exactly. For now. Until the price of the electricity goes up.

With the 200 million or so private vehicles on the road in the US, picture all of them needing to be charged in the foreseeable future,
 

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I think there maybe some misuse and misunderstanding of terminology in these types of discussions. EVs are definitely more fuel efficient. Hands down. Wont argue that. If they are marketed as fuel efficient vehicles I'd not make a peep.
But that's not the case l, they are marketed as green. IE good or better for the environment. That's where I get a stick in my craw. When marketed and sold as green the public should be informed and aware of the entire process and resource consumption of the EV and its components beginning of life to end. That is what all is involved in manufacturing of the batteries and motors. Quite a few precious metals in those. We already touched on shipping the bits around the country/world to manufacture them. And we end with recycling the batteries. When the EV reaches end of life you dont just put that battery into a charger and reuse it. It gets broken down and scrapped or turned back into new batteries. Again not exactly an easy process, uses a lot of resources to do so. If you look at the entire process these "green" vehicles are not so green anymore.

Also consider the massive upgrades to the infrastructure. That's a ton of wire needed. Wire is also a resource intensive commodity. Now we need crews to install the wires. Again very labor and resource intensive. How about maintaining all this new infrastructure? Costs involved? It's all supply and demand. Right now it may cost 4$ to drive the golf cart to work but as demand goes up so will the price.

Again I'm not saying it's bad and shouldn't happen. People just need to be aware. We can barely keep up with our infrastructure now. People are constantly griping about taxes. You think those will being going down as the repair bills go up? How much are the power plants getting in subsidies? That's more tax money. More plants will be needed to handle the ever growing demands. So....
 

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Exactly. For now. Until the price of the electricity goes up.
With about $1,200 worth of off-grid solar panels, I could potentially be driving to work for free for the remainder of my life.

I personally would not sweat electricity rates going up 400+% due to EV demands, since residential rooftop solar and utility-scale solar farms are going to keep the daytime costs in check. Of course, I wouldn't want to sign up for a smart meter with variable pricing based on the time-of-use, since those promotional "charge at night" rates they are offering today will likely go through the roof due to the increased demand when the sun is down.....
 

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I now feel very green and pure, having just spent $85 on a new carburetor for my trusty Jeep DJ5.

Why the expense, you ask? Well, it's a '75, with no adjustments on the carb except idle speed.
Having used it to pull a very small trailer with a 50-gallon sprayer for a few hours over the past two days, I couldn't help but notice that I need to fill the 13-gallon tank every six miles or so.
Yeah, it runs a wee bit rich here at altitude.

See, I just made the planet last an extra couple of months. Well, once the carb arrives and I install it.
 

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The new ev you mentioned has around a 150kW electric motor and a 64kWh 300 KM battery.

Assuming you charge at least every other day at home, with at least a 32A/ 7.4kW charging station, wondering what the total annual electric consumption is for one car? Or do you charge with a standard outlet?

Can solar (and solar subsidies resold back to grid) cover the costs?

To me, the math that matters is cost of kWh in electricity, not savings from gas. Remember, the newest gas engines in compact cars get incredible mileage. The new Corolla alone claims 32/42.
 

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With about $1,200 worth of off-grid solar panels, I could potentially be driving to work for free for the remainder of my life.

I personally would not sweat electricity rates going up 400+% due to EV demands, since residential rooftop solar and utility-scale solar farms are going to keep the daytime costs in check. Of course, I wouldn't want to sign up for a smart meter with variable pricing based on the time-of-use, since those promotional "charge at night" rates they are offering today will likely go through the roof due to the increased demand when the sun is down.....
Sorry!! ^^^^^ See my last post for an actual question!
 

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The new ev you mentioned has around a 150kW electric motor and a 64kWh 300 KM battery.
My DW's Kia EV actually has a published 385 km range in standard mode, and it is claiming almost 475 km in Eco mode.

Assuming you charge at least every other day at home, with at least a 32A/ 7.4kW charging station, wondering what the total annual electric consumption is for one car? Or do you charge with a standard outlet?
She uses our smart 230V/32A Level 2 EVSE (charger) to charge it, and the EVSE claims that she is putting 52 kWh into it every other day for 302 km of commuting. Assuming no loss of range in the winter (which is a fallacy), it is using about 6,300 kWh/year for commuting...which is less than $1,000 at our current electric rate. In reality, running the heater and lost range in the winter will probably push it up to 7,500-8,000 kWh from my guestimates. Both of our vehicles use heat pumps and not resistance heating, so it shouldn't be as big of a hit as the Nissan Leaf experiences in the winter.

I charge my i3 on a wall outlet every other night, since it only has a 132 km battery range and can easily charge overnight on the slower 120V Level 1 charger.

Can solar (and solar subsidies resold back to grid) cover the costs?
With our average of 31 kWh/day in EV power usage for commuting, we would need 5,000 watts of panels on a 6-hour sun day. I only have room for 3,000 watts of solar panels, and of course those panels cost money to purchase.

At the moment, the county where my DW works has free EV chargers at every park and county office paid for by their tourism department. No guarantee that they will be free forever, but for the next few years her commuting energy expenses could essentially be zero if she used them instead of charging at home.

NY State also has a grant program that pays employers $4,000/plug for every EV charger they install for employee use. I'm working with my employer now to install a few, not that my car's $11/month electric use is a huge expense.

To me, the math that matters is cost of kWh in electricity, not savings from gas. Remember, the newest gas engines in compact cars get incredible mileage. The new Corolla alone claims 32/42.
Remember to factor in maintenance costs, like oil/fluid changes, tuneups, etc.

The only scheduled maintenance on my EV according to BMW is a brake fluid flush every two years, which is more important in an EV since the use of regen braking prevents the water from being boiled out of the fluid from braking heat.

The only concern with EV life is battery aging. BMW gives an 8 year, unlimited warranty mileage warranty on the traction batteries, guaranteeing that they will have at least 70% of their original capacity or they will be replaced. Kia has an 8/100K mile warranty on their batteries, and Kia has an "unlimited" lifetime warranty on their battery packs (same ones used in the Kia). I'm not losing any sleep over battery life.....
 

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At the moment, the county where my DW works has free EV chargers at every park and county office paid for by their tourism department. No guarantee that they will be free forever...
They're not free now.
 

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The only concern with EV life is battery aging. BMW gives an 8 year, unlimited warranty mileage warranty on the traction batteries, guaranteeing that they will have at least 70% of their original capacity or they will be replaced. Kia has an 8/100K mile warranty on their batteries, and Kia has an "unlimited" lifetime warranty on their battery packs (same ones used in the Kia). I'm not losing any sleep over battery life.....
What is Kia's warranty period for the electric motor?
 

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They're not free now.
Sure it is. We don't live in or pay taxes in that county, and the free chargers are a 100% county initiative to increase eco-tourism among the hippies heading to Woodstock and New Paltz. >:)

What is Kia's warranty period for the electric motor?
I believe that it is covered under the 10/100K mile bumper-to-bumper warranty. She is driving it over 28K miles (45 K km) per year, so the warranty will probably be over before the last payment is made. In general, EV motor failures to date are not a huge problem. Given that it uses a shared motor/battery system with Hyundai, I'd imagine that the corporation would do a good-will replacement just to tear it down and see why it failed.....
 

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Sure it is. We don't live in or pay taxes in that county, and the free chargers are a 100% county initiative to increase eco-tourism among the hippies heading to Woodstock and New Paltz. >:)







I believe that it is covered under the 10/100K mile bumper-to-bumper warranty. She is driving it over 28K miles (45 K km) per year, so the warranty will probably be over before the last payment is made. In general, EV motor failures to date are not a huge problem. Given that it uses a shared motor/battery system with Hyundai, I'd imagine that the corporation would do a good-will replacement just to tear it down and see why it failed.....
Good luck on the good will. Same companies charge a core charge for the old parts which lets them get the part and still make money. Hell, hyundai would not even pay to replace the starter on a 3month old car because the part did not fail enough on a known bad part.
The problem with ev is they have truly limited range once you begin to really load the vehicle. The way they work now, people put very little load on the motor or batteries. Wait until you try to use the same motor to pull a stump or break a stick trailer free. The motor will load out, stalling under direct drive. The same load may overheat the battery and cause a cell to fail, killing an entire pack. Ev is way off from being used by the US. Europe can push it because not all of the population owns vehicle as they have taxed them into oblivion.
Now, when a ev vehicle as large as my truck can do the same as the truck and cost half as much as the truck does now, we can talk.

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You may have read this article about Cummins acquiring Hydrogenics.

https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2019/09/09/cummins-closes-its-acquisition-hydrogenics

They mention in the article about them preparing for the transition of energy. Hopefully, as some have mentioned, this might actually be the next major player in areas where electricity is not viable.
 
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