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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently I got a p401 code so I pulled the EGR system apart and cleaned it with the EGR cleaning kit provided by Dodge. This includede the CCV filter. After cleaning the system throughly and putting it back together. The same code returned, so i went to a local autoparts store and had the code cleared. Eventualy the code came back. I ended up testing the batteries and and found one of my two optima red tops was bad. I bought two new batteries and started the truck four times and the engine light cleared itself.

A couple observations:
1) Before you do any work to these trucks I think you need to check the battries first.
2) While cleaning the EGR cooler I noticed that the soot that came out of the EGR cooler was almost like graphite. It was very fine and formed little soot bubbles while I was cleaning the cooler.
3) The EGR system is a very simple system.

Question:
I know lots of people on this forum indicate that pushing soot through these engines is a bad thing for the longevity of the engine. Is there any evidence that indicates that is a fact? I am not convinced that the EGR system is a bad thing for these trucks.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
 

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I deleted mine and I can tell you for a fact that just judging by the difference in the oil was enough to tell me that it's no good for it. I'd like to hear from someone that has high mileage stock truck but have yet to hear of one not deleted. 100k docent count in my book as high mileage. Also the replacement and maintenance required in the further in the thousands of dollars was enough as well


-Powder Keg
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I currently have 109,000 miles and counting.
 

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Question:
I know lots of people on this forum indicate that pushing soot through these engines is a bad thing for the longevity of the engine. Is there any evidence that indicates that is a fact? I am not convinced that the EGR system is a bad thing for these trucks.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
I've seen grid heaters, literally choked shut to the point where trucks wouldn't run. Harmful? no, not really, but detrimental to performance and the ability to run, absolutely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
While I had it appart I did clean the grid heater with a tooth brush and shop vac. It did not seem like it was to bad. I can imagine if the truck is not running correctly it might get plugged up. I have see an aftermarket grid heater that moves the heating element on the other side of the intake horn.
 

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Question:
I know lots of people on this forum indicate that pushing soot through these engines is a bad thing for the longevity of the engine. Is there any evidence that indicates that is a fact? I am not convinced that the EGR system is a bad thing for these trucks.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!


I have no facts to quote you. I can only repeat what has been told me many times over the years from various sources. I have a boat with twin Detroit Diesels. I've been on boatdiesel.com for years to learn maintenance tips and tricks. I have learned a lot from the knowledgeable people on that site.

One recurring piece of advice is to fix any exhaust leaks immediately, no matter how small. They say if you leave an exhaust leak in an engine room, the soot will be ingested by the motors. They all warn that this is harmful to the engine. One person compared ingesting soot to pouring sand in your intake. Hyperbole........ no doubt... but he was trying to make a point.

Is there a difference between old, mechanical diesel soot and new, common rail/electronic diesel soot? Or...... is diesel soot just diesel soot?

Is the "sandpaper" effect of soot in an engine an old wives' tale and/or just grossly exaggerated?

I don't know the answer to these questions. I choose to believe the engine is better off without ingesting diesel soot.

Just my 2 cents.....

:beer:
 

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Well, as a casual thought . . . the friction area in the engine subject to wear by soot is the cylinder wall . . . and considering that that is where the soot is made in the first place, it's not like you are keeping it out . . . just not giving it a second trip through . . .

Food for thought . . .

- Tim
 

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Well, as a casual thought . . . the friction area in the engine subject to wear by soot is the cylinder wall . . . and considering that that is where the soot is made in the first place, it's not like you are keeping it out . . . just not giving it a second trip through . . .

Food for thought . . .

- Tim
Hmmm.... very interesting, can't say I've ever looked at it that way.... :doh:

Perhaps it is just an old wives' tale after all......
 

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The cylinders of a non EGR engine are actually pretty free from soot. And unless there is a failure, you never see anything on the intake side.
In an EGR application, the cylinders are not caked with deposits like you would think. But there is definitely more than the typical non EGR application.

The real internal difference is in the oil. Oil samples have shown a major increase in combustion byproducts in the oil which can be damaging to bearings, and all other wear surfaces.

The noticeable difference is the intake side of things. Worked on several construction trucks that the intake and EGR passages were completely plugged with soot. The cylinder temps burn off most of the remaining carbon and soot left behind. But the diverted "dirty" air going back through the intake has a chance to cool, tends to attract other particles and stick to the intake walls.

Even the highway trucks are having issues. Just did an EGR delete on a Cummins ISX for repeated problems with the system.

Jason
 

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Understood that the intake will get dirty, but that is not wear . . . just a PITA to clean!

My question on combustion byproducts in the oil is this: Is that the EGR gas getting directly into the oil, or a byproduct of running EGR that is seen? The net result is the same - crap in the oil, but I don't see any direct path whereby EGR gas in the intake has a snowballs chance in hell of getting to the oil . . . only via blow-by, which would tend to indicate that the EGR is what creates the combustion byproducts, and the normal blow-by allows them into the oil . . .

And no, I would *NOT* think that the cylinders would be caked with anything - just too damn hot for the soot to survive in the combustion chamber!

- Tim
 

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I've seen trucks around here running deleted since day one have honey colored oil after 3000 miles of use....

I'd like to see an EGR truck pull that off.

Its all the pumping motion of the cylinder that gets the EGR soot into the crank case.

When exhaust gases are produced they are only in the cyl during part of the power stroke and all the exhaust stroke (exhaust stroke is under 0 pressure so you can pretty much eliminate that) When you use EGR, soot is in the cylinder on the intake stroke, then the compression stroke too which it will cake to the cylinder walls in a thin layer, then be scraped down by the rings on the power stroke then right into the crank case from there.

Were talking fractions of millimeter clearances between the rings and cylinder wall, but when you consider the size of a soot molecule it's huge. The force and heat on the rings from combustion makes them flare out into the cyl and act more as a scraper than they did on the compression stroke so that is how the soot gets by initially.
 

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First, the exhaust stroke is clearly *NOT* under zero pressure, or it would not be expelled from the cylinder . . . . The piston is coming up, the exhaust valve is open, but there is a backpressure due to the turbo/exhaust system/valve itself that clearly produced a pressure in the cylinder during exhaust.

Intake, however, is under a partial vacuum for exactly the same reasons . . . intake valve/intake passages/butterfly all produce resistance, thus resulting in negative pressure in the cylinder.

And if the oil filter is taking out the particulate soot, the color is pretty much irrelevant . . .

I guess it comes down to what is the actual negative effect of EGR, vs. the negative effect of driving a crime scene with it deleted . . . and I don't know the answer to that . . .

Oh, and where is Superior township? I may be stuck in Texas, but started out in Portage township in the UP . . .

- Tim
 

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First, the exhaust stroke is clearly *NOT* under zero pressure, or it would not be expelled from the cylinder . . . . The piston is coming up, the exhaust valve is open, but there is a backpressure due to the turbo/exhaust system/valve itself that clearly produced a pressure in the cylinder during exhaust.
stand corrected...turbo drive pressure is there on exhaust momentary brain far.

And if the oil filter is taking out the particulate soot, the color is pretty much irrelevant . . .

I guess it comes down to what is the actual negative effect of EGR, vs. the negative effect of driving a crime scene with it deleted . . . and I don't know the answer to that . . .

Oh, and where is Superior township? I may be stuck in Texas, but started out in Portage township in the UP . . .

- Tim
No oil filter that I know of filters down to the level of soot particles. My 03 would be dark black oil the second I zoomed it up from the new oil change even with a bypass system. (they have in cylinder EGR working against them on the cam). Same on my current VP truck.

Superior Township is between Detroit and Ann Arbor :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Good discussion. I live in Maricopa County AZ. I have yet to go through emissions testing with my pickup. I think next year they will require a test. I am going to go through the emission testing before I make any decissions about deleting anything. Anyhow thanks for the thoughts!
 

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Just have to add one thing to this. Why should I have to take my truck engine intake system apart and clean it with a tooth brush and vacuum as a maintenance item to keep it running correctly or so that it doesn't damage $$ expensive parts?
 
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