Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey all - first post here so please forgive any mistakes on my part. Anyway, I recently have been having cooling system problems on my truck and took it in for a diagnosis at a local (reputable) diesel shop. The truck in question is a 2010 2500 that is deleted, has an S&B intake, Smarty, and ARP head studs. 190,000 miles.

Long story short, the truck has a blown HG. I think it was a combination of the previous owner's negligence installing studs (1 for 1) in combination with the Smarty. The Smarty was always on level 1 but I've heard *rumors* of trucks running this system being affected.

Photos of the quote are attached - the final cost was set at $4,058 labor and parts. I'm located in the PNW. This price just seemed a little steep to me in reference to others who have posted here with their experiences. I've circled some of the items on the invoice of which I will be supplying myself and was able to reduce the cost to around $3,500. I know the machine work is one of the most vital parts of the process and the machine shop doing the work is independent with experience in diesel related work.

Anyway, I'd really appreciate any feedback on this. I'm not trying to out any shop or speak negatively on anyone's brand... I'm just not trying to overpay. There's a few shops in my area - I just don't want to waste much time running around with a faulty truck. I've never had a HG issue with any of my trucks so this is uncharted territory for me.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,152 Posts
You said smarty was always on level one what was the timing set at?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,238 Posts
The prices are not bad for the amount of machine work and labor, about what we paid for the 0-ringing, gaskets, and head machining. We have labor cuz we pulle dth enegine and rebuilt but $1500 to pull the head and the associated parts is not bad.

Why are oyu listing studs again when it ostensibly already has studs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
The shop that did my head gasket also sent the injectors into Denver to the Bosch reman facility and had them tested. The machine work was way cheaper than your estimate ($300 for the machine work, if I remember correctly). I checked around at different diesel shops and they were the same money as what your shop wants. I chose a shop that had the best reputation for doing the work correctly and though it cost me over $5000 I have more confidence in their work than the cheaper ones. I would rather pay a shop that has the reputation of doing the work right than a shop that has a questionable reputation, even if it costs me a little more.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,238 Posts
The machine work was way cheaper than your estimate ($300 for the machine work, if I remember correctly).
That is normal for just truing the head up, costs a bit more to do the o-ring grooves. The $900 for head shaving and o-ring grooves is in the ball park of most places.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
695 Posts
The only thing i question is, what was mentioned above. What's up with the new studs? ARP studs are reusable.

Also if your trying to cut costs, you could always not ring the head. You got 190k out of it with just a set of studs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Yes the truck has studs right now. I've heard more of those "rumors" about reusing studs but I don't have any personal experience to base that on. I think that was more of a shop recommendation to get a new set in there. I'd be curious to know how much risk is involved with using them over again. I'm not sure what the timing was set to. I'm not a tuner guy at all. My plan is to set the truck back to stock and get rid of the tuner. May go with EFI in the future.

The truck is solely used for towing a ~ 10,000lb trailer 300 miles round-trip about twice a month. It has an occasional empty road trip but between these issues, water pumps, hubs, and other little issues, it hasn't seen much use lately. I just need the most reliable platform to continue doing what I do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
361 Posts
The shop that did my head gasket said the studs weren't reusable and I don't know if this is true or not, but they put a 36 month/ 36,000 mile warranty on their work which makes the new studs okay for me. Like someone older and wiser than me said a long time ago, "It doesn't cost that much more to go first class".
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,238 Posts
No reason to not reuse studs if they look ok and take the TQ without issue. Even ARP bolts are reusable until they stretch beyond limits. The only bolts you don't reuse are the TTY's. Whoever is claiming a new set of studs is needed doesn't really understand how to check or use them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,412 Posts
One of the few times that I will state a technical parts replacement opinion different than cerb.

Even if you measure the total length of the studs and examine closely for any damaged stretched threads, still no guarantee that studs are not weakened/stretched by head lifting. Engine probably ran some time with combustion stroke putting more pressure on lifted head/studs causing more damage.
Why take the chance with an expensive engine repair.
New studs. Be absolutely sure the shop bottom taps the block holes to remove all dirt in bottom with brake cleaner and air.

My money is on the previous owner overheating the motor, jamming the EGTs too high too long or overfueling + too much boost. Lots of these 6.7s are damaged by moron owners chasing more power in an engine that has poor to mediocre head to block contact holding area and clamp pressure. Mediocre coolant flow through the head only increases the potential for damage.

Took years for Cummins to redesign, change and build the 6.7 idiot owner proof, 2015 or more, and boneheads still dog pooch the motor.

Has the block surface been machinist checked for perfectly flat and no distortions?

A Smarty under the control of a half wit hot rodder is capable of putting the head through the hood on one of these 6.7s
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
One of the few times that I will state a technical parts replacement opinion different than cerb.

Even if you measure the total length of the studs and examine closely for any damaged stretched threads, still no guarantee that studs are not weakened/stretched by head lifting. Engine probably ran some time with combustion stroke putting more pressure on lifted head/studs causing more damage.
Why take the chance with an expensive engine repair.
New studs. Be absolutely sure the shop bottom taps the block holes to remove all dirt in bottom with brake cleaner and air.

My money is on the previous owner overheating the motor, jamming the EGTs too high too long or overfueling + too much boost. Lots of these 6.7s are damaged by moron owners chasing more power in an engine that has poor to mediocre head to block contact holding area and clamp pressure. Mediocre coolant flow through the head only increases the potential for damage.



Took years for Cummins to redesign, change and build the 6.7 idiot owner proof, 2015 or more, and boneheads still dog pooch the motor.

Has the block surface been machinist checked for perfectly flat and no distortions?

A Smarty under the control of a half wit hot rodder is capable of putting the head through the hood on one of these 6.7s


Did Cummins make changes to the head or something in 2015?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,152 Posts
No............
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Not to revive this thread too much but I wanted to thank everyone that chimed in. The truck still hasn't gone in but is scheduled to next week. I will be going over everything discussed here with the shop just to clarify. I'm definitely sticking with a new set of studs just for piece of mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
Hey all - first post here so please forgive any mistakes on my part. Anyway, I recently have been having cooling system problems on my truck and took it in for a diagnosis at a local (reputable) diesel shop. The truck in question is a 2010 2500 that is deleted, has an S&B intake, Smarty, and ARP head studs. 190,000 miles.

Long story short, the truck has a blown HG. I think it was a combination of the previous owner's negligence installing studs (1 for 1) in combination with the Smarty. The Smarty was always on level 1 but I've heard *rumors* of trucks running this system being affected.

Photos of the quote are attached - the final cost was set at $4,058 labor and parts. I'm located in the PNW. This price just seemed a little steep to me in reference to others who have posted here with their experiences. I've circled some of the items on the invoice of which I will be supplying myself and was able to reduce the cost to around $3,500. I know the machine work is one of the most vital parts of the process and the machine shop doing the work is independent with experience in diesel related work.

Anyway, I'd really appreciate any feedback on this. I'm not trying to out any shop or speak negatively on anyone's brand... I'm just not trying to overpay. There's a few shops in my area - I just don't want to waste much time running around with a faulty truck. I've never had a HG issue with any of my trucks so this is uncharted territory for me.
That head gasket kit should come with injector o-rings. If you are using genuine Cummins gasket kit for the head. It will have all required gaskets/seals for all necessary components. At least that's how we order them on big trucks. Just something to keep in mind.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top