[Tuffguy707]

But no heated or cooled cup holders? LMAO

 

[Swafdog]

I do agree the 68rfe is one of the clunkyist, random shifting, noisy transmissions I’ve ever had. Wish they would update it but doubt that will have for a while

 

[Grit dog]

I do agree the 68rfe is one of the clunkyist, random shifting, noisy transmissions I’ve ever had. Wish they would update it but doubt that will have for a while

Yeah, it's almost embarrassing...for both vehicle owners and RAM. They went from the chittiest most outdated auto trans in 3rd Gens (47/48re), to a marginal, semi out of date 6 speed (68rfe) in the late 2000s and have yet to improve significantly.
But I guess if you can make money selling cheap azz chit sandwiches (68rfe), no need to upgrade to bologna (Aisin) or god forbid something really good like pastrami (10 speed Alli) or roast beef (10 speed Ford).
Perhaps most shocking is in 2001, when Dodge was pimpin a 5 year old model of a 30 year old design, with OD added, GM introduced the Allison to light duty trucks, and it smoked the 4r100 and 47re like cheap cigars. Then Ford got with the program in 2003 with the 5r110 torqshift or whatever the designation was, which was 2nd fiddle to the Alli, but FAR better than the Dodge upgrade to the 48re.

By mid/late 2000s, both GM and Ford were improving a bit and in the 6 speed category. Dodge intro'd the 68re. Massive upgrade for Dodge, albeit with a few early growing pains, but nothing like the 6 speed Alli or 6 speed Ford trans. Solid unit generally, but 10 years...10 YEARS after it's intro, the 68rfe still shifted like a wet bag of dog crap! At least by the mid 2000s to mid 2010s, Chrysler admitted defeat in the lighter duty auto trans market and employed the NAG1 (Mercedes) and 8HP (ZF), putting them top of the heap in those markets, but what happened to the big trucks??
If but not for the G56 continuing until 4 years ago (with NO attempt to give it a durable clutch, btw) up-ordering to get an Aisin was a Ram buyers only other option for a decent trans. And even those don't shift as well as a certain transmission that is now this year old enough to buy booze legally!!

 

[El Pozzinator]

Curious to see how the 10-speed “Allison branded” GM/Ford joint venture trans holds up mid- to long-term. I’m personally not sold that the Cummins, with a half-mile-wide torque curve, really needs those other four gears if it’s being used to tow. But I’m sure it would be nice for unloaded daily driving, and/or mall-crawler BroDozer’ing with the mirrors stretched out like Invisible Blasted Lats Syndrome towing a massive Bluetooth freedom trailer thru the Home Depot parking lot…

…Says the guy (me) with a 15yo mega dually that hasn’t had a trailer hitched up in prolly 4-5 years…

 

[Grit dog]

Curious to see how the 10-speed “Allison branded” GM/Ford joint venture trans holds up mid- to long-term. I’m personally not sold that the Cummins, with a half-mile-wide torque curve, really needs those other four gears if it’s being used to tow. But I’m sure it would be nice for unloaded daily driving, and/or mall-crawler BroDozer’ing with the mirrors stretched out like Invisible Blasted Lats Syndrome towing a massive Bluetooth freedom trailer thru the Home Depot parking lot…

…Says the guy (me) with a 15yo mega dually that hasn’t had a trailer hitched up in prolly 4-5 years…

It will be interesting to see the new 10 speeds durability over the long haul. But the big 10speeds aren't a Ford/GM JV. That's jsut the half ton slushboxes. They are different transmissions.

That said, your analysis of "who" could use more gear splits, the hauler or the mall crawler is 180deg off course. Mall crawler could theoretically get by with a beefed up Powerglide and 2.73 or 3.08 gears behind the big C.
It's the heavy work that would benefit from more gear splits, deeper low gears, etc.

 

[El Pozzinator]

It will be interesting to see the new 10 speeds durability over the long haul. But the big 10speeds aren't a Ford/GM JV. That's jsut the half ton slushboxes. They are different transmissions.

That said, your analysis of "who" could use more gear splits, the hauler or the mall crawler is 180deg off course. Mall crawler could theoretically get by with a beefed up Powerglide and 2.73 or 3.08 gears behind the big C.
It's the heavy work that would benefit from more gear splits, deeper low gears, etc.

Sorry I gueas the sarcasm didn’t come thru via written word on the gears thing. I figured everyone here would catch that given we all understand why the big inline 6 class 8 trucks run 18-speed over/under boxes, more gears is always better on a big bore engine that only revs to 3k but isn’t real terribly happy outside of an 1800-2200 rpm window. What’s oddest I thought about the v8 diesels using the extra gears and dodge resisting was that those V8s comparatively can rev to the moon, with a much wider spread between their torque and horsepower peaks. One would think dodge would take advantage of the closer inline engine peaks by using extra gears. More complicated? Yes, but it seems there’s a lot more stupid high mile Cummins on the road working than Dmax or PS engines… been sorta anticipating a 10-speed (or at least an 8-speed) was gonna be the gen 5 bombshell ram would drop on the hotshot world.

 

[Grit dog]

Sorry I gueas the sarcasm didn’t come thru via written word on the gears thing. I figured everyone here would catch that given we all understand why the big inline 6 class 8 trucks run 18-speed over/under boxes, more gears is always better on a big bore engine that only revs to 3k but isn’t real terribly happy outside of an 1800-2200 rpm window. What’s oddest I thought about the v8 diesels using the extra gears and dodge resisting was that those V8s comparatively can rev to the moon, with a much wider spread between their torque and horsepower peaks. One would think dodge would take advantage of the closer inline engine peaks by using extra gears. More complicated? Yes, but it seems there’s a lot more stupid high mile Cummins on the road working than Dmax or PS engines… been sorta anticipating a 10-speed (or at least an 8-speed) was gonna be the gen 5 bombshell ram would drop on the hotshot world.

My apologies, yes I did not read into your sarcasm....Doesn't help that more than one person has actually claimed, "The Cummins has such a flat torque curve that it won't benefit from more gears, unlike them wimpy V8 diesels..." or something to that effect.

Moral of the story, don't be surprised if you get some mis-guided folks agreeing with your sarcasm! LOL

 

[rainman428]

It will be interesting to see the new 10 speeds durability over the long haul. But the big 10speeds aren't a Ford/GM JV. That's jsut the half ton slushboxes. They are different transmissions.

I've definitely read somewhere that they have a lot of shared parts between the Ford and GM transmissions

 

[Electrojake]

Moral of the story, don't be surprised if you get some mis-guided folks agreeing with your sarcasm! LOL

Pssst... I'm here if ya' need me buddy.

 

[Grit dog]

Pssst... I'm here if ya' need me buddy.

Dude, not you too?
I thought you were one who understood "too much" about vehicles (hence the reason for your general paranoia about these trucks), not the other way around...

 

[Electrojake]

^^^ Nah... I'm just being a pest.
Besides, I'm only an expert on P2609 codes and rubber fan shroud disasters. 🍺

 

[El Pozzinator]

My apologies, yes I did not read into your sarcasm....Doesn't help that more than one person has actually claimed, "The Cummins has such a flat torque curve that it won't benefit from more gears, unlike them wimpy V8 diesels..." or something to that effect.

Moral of the story, don't be surprised if you get some mis-guided folks agreeing with your sarcasm! LOL

We always say on here “torque without rpm breaks parts”, so I can’t understand how giving the truck more options to transmit torque under boost at a higher rpm could be a bad thing. Or roll a lower rpm at low load conditions - cruising 70-75 mph across Kansas at barely above idle might be kinda nice.

Halfway between all the gears 1-5 would be nice splits, ie launch in 1st, 1 over, 2, 2 over, 3, 3 over, 4, 4 over, 5th and 6th. There’s your 10 gears… program it so T/H mode doesn’t allow 6th, and you solve a BIG problem the 68rfe has… namely, cooking the OD gears trying to push boost thru literally the weakest gear the transmission has. Electronically limit the truck to 4th (or in this hypothetical case, 8th) and you solve most of the rest of the problem by keeping boost off the OD pack altogether.

I understand the ZF 10-speed in the gassers is barely bigger than the previous 6-speed; I’ve heard a buddy with a diesel shop say the diesel 10 speed isn’t much bigger either, proportionately maybe the same increase as the ZF-10 over say the 6L80. Hopefully they managed to smash enough clutch in there to hold these “new and improved” torque numbers they’re bragging about, AND enough case rigidity to hold the gears in place like they should be.

 

[Grit dog]

We always say on here “torque without rpm breaks parts”, so I can’t understand how giving the truck more options to transmit torque under boost at a higher rpm could be a bad thing. Or roll a lower rpm at low load conditions - cruising 70-75 mph across Kansas at barely above idle might be kinda nice.

Halfway between all the gears 1-5 would be nice splits, ie launch in 1st, 1 over, 2, 2 over, 3, 3 over, 4, 4 over, 5th and 6th. There’s your 10 gears… program it so T/H mode doesn’t allow 6th, and you solve a BIG problem the 68rfe has… namely, cooking the OD gears trying to push boost thru literally the weakest gear the transmission has. Electronically limit the truck to 4th (or in this hypothetical case, 8th) and you solve most of the rest of the problem by keeping boost off the OD pack altogether.

I understand the ZF 10-speed in the gassers is barely bigger than the previous 6-speed; I’ve heard a buddy with a diesel shop say the diesel 10 speed isn’t much bigger either, proportionately maybe the same increase as the ZF-10 over say the 6L80. Hopefully they managed to smash enough clutch in there to hold these “new and improved” torque numbers they’re bragging about, AND enough case rigidity to hold the gears in place like they should be.

I agree. And having a 68rfe, a GM/Ford 1/2 ton 10 speed and a ZF8HP 8 speed car all in the stable (plus prev owner of a G56 truck that after 13 years of owning and driving still had me randomly reaching for 7th gear sometimes, literally...) it's pretty easy to see how more gear splits applied to the Big C powered trucks would be an actual game changer.
What I've found is from the 8/10 speed (gassers) and another 8 speed Chevy gasser truck I had for a bit, is, 8 gears behind a/any typical gasser is enough. The 10 speed in my Silverado 1500 is of diminishing returns. 9th or 10th could go away and never be missed. 150 rpms between deep OD and a smidge deeper OD means nothing, especially since it doesn't top 2000 rpms in top gear until like 90 mph....and stops running at 98mph, lol. By those speeds, fuel mileage is largely wind resistance and not rpms related, IMO.
8 speed ZF in the car is also perfect. Can lock out 1st for putzing around with 500hp under the hood and not smokin the tires with a slight twitch of the go pedal from a stop light and it cruises at very low rpms at far over the speed limit.
By contrast a double OD 6 speed in the Cummins has too wide of gear splits. My situation is exaggerated a little with 3.42s and 37s, but the 1-2 upshift will almost lug the engine if you're easy on the skinny pedal and it doesn't run up over 2000rpms a ways before shifting. 2-3 and 3-4 are similar. It does much better, towing, but still need to "drive around" it making an early upshift, especially with a heavy trailer, because it's a little harsh and grumbly when you're digging a bit and it drops almost 1000 rpms on diesel engine when upshifting.
To be fair, there are way better 6 speeds to compare and contrast than the 68rfe. This behavior is NOT an issue with an Allison Duramax or Powerstroke 6 speed, but only because they are smarter transmissions.

IDK what TF Stellantis hang up is with getting the Cummins transmissions upgraded. I have a buddy who is an Engineer for ZF, and he was driving home 4th Gen duallys with the ZF Powerline 8 speed fitted in them for initial testing 4? years ago now I believe.
THAT one thing might make me just go hand over my $ for a new Ram. An 8 speed manual trans Cummins WOULD make me fork out the cash tomorrow! But that's even more of a dream than Ram actually getting up to date with their auto transmissions...lol

 

[El Pozzinator]

YES! My 06 g56 truck, I spent a LOT of time on the phone with gear vendors trying to figure out how to make a splitter live behind the 5.9 with 3.73s and 19.5” wheels with toyo m508z tires (36.1” rolling diameter). That thing, 1st was useless except for hooked up to a 15k+ trailer, 2-3 and 5-6 was too much rpm drop if shifting under 2k rpm, and unloaded it desperately needed a 7th gear. Totally understandable why a spicer 7 speed in the 2nd and 3rd gen trucks is such a well-regarded but difficult upgrade.

Only other thing I wanna see is the emissions get more reliable where they don’t require aftertreament injection - like how we can get utterly stupid power out of gassers with fully intact emissions that seem to never break - and the transmission actually be able to handle full torque and full GCWR. Maybe a programming thing, maybe a hard parts thing. But would be nice if buying an $85,000 truck wouldn’t require a legal page front and back worth of caveats about how to not break your brand new truck the first time you hitch up a 12,000 lb 5er. Max “rated” numbers are useless if the ignorant masses victimized by market-wanketeering spend the next six years trash talking your product.

 

[Radride]

I agree. And having a 68rfe, a GM/Ford 1/2 ton 10 speed and a ZF8HP 8 speed car all in the stable (plus prev owner of a G56 truck that after 13 years of owning and driving still had me randomly reaching for 7th gear sometimes, literally...) it's pretty easy to see how more gear splits applied to the Big C powered trucks would be an actual game changer.
What I've found is from the 8/10 speed (gassers) and another 8 speed Chevy gasser truck I had for a bit, is, 8 gears behind a/any typical gasser is enough. The 10 speed in my Silverado 1500 is of diminishing returns. 9th or 10th could go away and never be missed. 150 rpms between deep OD and a smidge deeper OD means nothing, especially since it doesn't top 2000 rpms in top gear until like 90 mph....and stops running at 98mph, lol. By those speeds, fuel mileage is largely wind resistance and not rpms related, IMO.
8 speed ZF in the car is also perfect. Can lock out 1st for putzing around with 500hp under the hood and not smokin the tires with a slight twitch of the go pedal from a stop light and it cruises at very low rpms at far over the speed limit.
By contrast a double OD 6 speed in the Cummins has too wide of gear splits. My situation is exaggerated a little with 3.42s and 37s, but the 1-2 upshift will almost lug the engine if you're easy on the skinny pedal and it doesn't run up over 2000rpms a ways before shifting. 2-3 and 3-4 are similar. It does much better, towing, but still need to "drive around" it making an early upshift, especially with a heavy trailer, because it's a little harsh and grumbly when you're digging a bit and it drops almost 1000 rpms on diesel engine when upshifting.
To be fair, there are way better 6 speeds to compare and contrast than the 68rfe. This behavior is NOT an issue with an Allison Duramax or Powerstroke 6 speed, but only because they are smarter transmissions.

IDK what TF Stellantis hang up is with getting the Cummins transmissions upgraded. I have a buddy who is an Engineer for ZF, and he was driving home 4th Gen duallys with the ZF Powerline 8 speed fitted in them for initial testing 4? years ago now I believe.
THAT one thing might make me just go hand over my $ for a new Ram. An 8 speed manual trans Cummins WOULD make me fork out the cash tomorrow! But that's even more of a dream than Ram actually getting up to date with their auto transmissions...lol

I think the problem we have here is the fact the Cummins makes sooooo much torque down low as compared to its rivals that those other trans can take it. They might have to cut back the power so much to keep them alive that there's no point in having those transmissions. That is my theory.

R.K.

 

[dieselenthusiast]

"During its EV Day 2021 presentation, Stellantis said that the future of the Ram Heavy Duty lineup will be electrified. Koval seems to have confirmed that, in his interview with Motor Authority. However, don’t expect it to happen anytime soon. The current fourth-generation Ram Heavy Duty will receive several new updates for 2023, allowing the truck to at least continue production in its current state till 2028.

Koval explained that the possibility of an electrified Heavy Duty pickup could take place in the 2030s, however, he expects that timeline to be pulled forward dramatically.

Another interesting point, dropped by Stellantis during the EV Day 2021 presentation was the possible use of hydrogen fuel cells for the Heavy Duty pickup segment. Koval seemed to confirm that as he told Motor Authority he believes hydrogen fuel cells could be an interesting solution for both Heavy Duty pickup and Chassis Cab customers. He stated that RAM is looking at the possibilities, however, nothing has been decided on as of yet."

Cummins may power Ram’s hydrogen future – Stellpower

 

[Electrojake]

Koval explained that the possibility of an electrified Heavy Duty pickup could take place in the 2030s...
Cummins may power Ram’s hydrogen future – Stellpower

^^^ Well for me personally that's good news.
Assuming a mid-point date of 2035 for the switchover from internal combustion to electric... that will put me at 79 years old.
My RV hauling days will (hopefully) be over by then... maybe even my driving days will be over by then.

Thank you for posting that @dieselenthusiast It brought a little sunshine to my day. 🙂

 

[dieselenthusiast]

I would be okay with electric if it had a 600-mile towing range, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. I think we're more likely to see a hydrogen powered Cummins. For now, I'm waiting for the 5th gen body to be released with an 8-speed transmission.

 

[timnewton]

I would be okay with electric if it had a 600-mile towing range, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. I think we're more likely to see a hydrogen powered Cummins. For now, I'm waiting for the 5th gen body to be released with an 8-speed transmission.

That or being able to quickly/reasonably swap out batteries. Like a station that would have charged up packs ready to go and could swap them in/out in 15 min or less.

 

[Wombat Ranger]

YES! My 06 g56 truck, I spent a LOT of time on the phone with gear vendors trying to figure out how to make a splitter live behind the 5.9 with 3.73s and 19.5” wheels with toyo m508z tires (36.1” rolling diameter). That thing, 1st was useless except for hooked up to a 15k+ trailer, 2-3 and 5-6 was too much rpm drop if shifting under 2k rpm, and unloaded it desperately needed a 7th gear. Totally understandable why a spicer 7 speed in the 2nd and 3rd gen trucks is such a well-regarded but difficult upgrade.

G56/4.10's in my work truck work perfectly up to 6th. I definitely want another 20% on top, but 1st is not useless when your truck is 12000lbs before a trailer, and 30-45k when towing. I use it every time I take off. I often consider going to larger tires to bring down highway rpms, but I don't want to give up my ability to launch 40k from an uphill start.

Which leads to the 7spd comment. I have a spicer 6+1 overdrive that I was partway through putting in another Dodge a few years back before I had to abandon the project. The gearing does not get taller than a G56. The first gear is lower. So in conjuction with taller tires or rear end gears (not an option for the Dodge front end) the 6+1 ES066-7B would work great. I dream of being able to do this one day.

Speaking specifically of the medium trucks, these trucks are not perfect, but they're pretty darn good. They worked with what they had and it does what it needs to do. But as much as I love a manual transmission in everything I own, I am starting to think the Aisin may be a better choice in the medium duty trucks. My business partner has a 2011 Ram 4500 with Aisin and 4.10's and it works pretty darn well.