Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum banner

61 - 80 of 95 Posts

Registered
Joined
128 Posts
I had that on my last set of tires which were m/t tires that came on the truck when I bought it, it seemed to be fixed by an alignment. All I can figure out is the tread blocks closest to the edge were getting pulled more by the feathering action of the toe. Does it have uneven wear all around the circumference, or just on one side? Mine was worn all the way around like that

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

Premium Member
Joined
816 Posts
Discussion Starter #62
All parts are notin good shape. You have failed to change two of the main contributors, steering gear and ball joints. Figure out which of the two or both still have play in them and replace them to solve your problem. Also did you do the track bar? It is the most common source with steering gear being second. Control arms also can contribute. If you have all new/good parts and good alignment you will not have a death wobble problem.
I'm going to disagree with you on that one. The steering box is smooth with no tight or loose spots, returns to center, doesn't have excess play and doesn't leak externally. As for the ball joints, I've placed the front end on jack stands with the tires slightly off the ground , then pushed, pulled, pried up underneath with a crow bar and the hub doesn't deflect (that was not the case before I changed out the wheel bearing, hence the reason I changed them).

So I disagree with the old mantra of "throw parts at it until the problem goes away", as there is no evidence that the steering box or the ball joints are bad, and plenty of evidence that they're still good.

And the truck has a synergy track bar (because the factory ball joint was shot on the original)
.
.
.
 

Premium Member
Joined
816 Posts
Discussion Starter #63
I had that on my last set of tires which were m/t tires that came on the truck when I bought it, it seemed to be fixed by an alignment. All I can figure out is the tread blocks closest to the edge were getting pulled more by the feathering action of the toe. Does it have uneven wear all around the circumference, or just on one side? Mine was worn all the way around like that

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
I've got some DIY front end alignment tools on the way. Part of which is two big aluminum plates with tape measure slots cut in them to measure toe with. Once they arrive I'll see if the toe is off and adjust accordingly.

But to answer your question, yes, it has uneven wear all around the circumference.
.
.
.
 

Registered
Joined
15,775 Posts
But to answer your question, yes, it has uneven wear all around the circumference.
Probably not a balancing issue then.
 

Registered
Joined
1,886 Posts
@Antonm That wear is not unique to the Dodge CAD axle. I had that going on with my '87 K30 chev, and my Dad's TTB Ford. It's fairly common uneven wear on open-tread tires. Could be one several things:
  • inadequate shocks
  • worn out steering stabilizer
  • lots of 4wd use (high-speed pavement; especially with braking/cornering. That part-time tcase... inherent bind/scrub.)
  • dynamically changing steering geometry (factory y-steering)

I don't think the CAD arrangement helps, or at least no worse than other axles with the hubs locked-in. It makes the steering 'lumpier' as the ujoints turn at tighter angles. This may be part of the wear also.

The main changes in geometry from an old-school D60 and these 94+ ones is the tire sits much closer to the steering axis (i.e. kingpins or balljoints), Y-steering (no rigid link between knuckles), and less resistance to tire/wheel wobble (unit bearing). It creates some ripe circumstances for a tiny bit of wear (anywhere) to create shimmies and oscillations. Especially with taller, blockier tires on an otherwise stock setup (undermines the tiny bit of factory scrub radius).

When you address these items - all of them - you get very close to how an older generation D60 performs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jimmy N.

Registered
Joined
113 Posts
I have a home alignment kit from Tenhulzen. It works good. Has Toe plates and digital caster, camber gauge.
It has paid for its self many times.
The above post mentions Steering Stabilizer. Is yours new? A worn out one can contribute both, to tire wear, and Death Wobble.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jimmy N.

Premium Member
Joined
816 Posts
Discussion Starter #67 (Edited)
@Antonm That wear is not unique to the Dodge CAD axle. I had that going on with my '87 K30 chev, and my Dad's TTB Ford. It's fairly common uneven wear on open-tread tires. Could be one several things:
  • inadequate shocks
  • worn out steering stabilizer
  • lots of 4wd use (high-speed pavement; especially with braking/cornering. That part-time tcase... inherent bind/scrub.)
  • dynamically changing steering geometry (factory y-steering)

I don't think the CAD arrangement helps, or at least no worse than other axles with the hubs locked-in. It makes the steering 'lumpier' as the ujoints turn at tighter angles. This may be part of the wear also.

The main changes in geometry from an old-school D60 and these 94+ ones is the tire sits much closer to the steering axis (i.e. kingpins or balljoints), Y-steering (no rigid link between knuckles), and less resistance to tire/wheel wobble (unit bearing). It creates some ripe circumstances for a tiny bit of wear (anywhere) to create shimmies and oscillations. Especially with taller, blockier tires on an otherwise stock setup (undermines the tiny bit of factory scrub radius).

When you address these items - all of them - you get very close to how an older generation D60 performs.
  • inadequate shocks
    • I did have some bargain basement shocks on the truck until very recently (now I've got Carli's on it), so that's a definite possibility.
  • worn out steering stabilizer
    • Likely, its also a bargain basement unit that probably wasn't that good brand new, so another good possibility .
  • lots of 4wd use (high-speed pavement; especially with braking/cornering. That part-time tcase... inherent bind/scrub.)
    • Don't think that's it , I rarely use 4x4, and when I do its usually 4x4 low range, so no highway speeds
  • dynamically changing steering geometry (factory y-steering)
    • I've had 98-99 hd T-type steering on it for awhile now, but I did have the factory Y-type when I first got these tires, so maybe a partial cause for that one.

When you address these items - all of them - you get very close to how an older generation D60 performs.
- The other Dana 60 equipped diesel I've been comparing this one to (which doesn't show the same tire wear) is 2010 model (not a dodge though), but it is a unit bearing axle on that one too.
.
.
.
 

Registered
Joined
15,775 Posts
The above post mentions Steering Stabilizer. Is yours new? A worn out one can contribute both, to tire wear, and Death Wobble.
I have mixed feelings about using a stabilizer. If used on an axle that works without one, fine, it can help prolong the life of parts. But it seems far too common to use a stabilizer to cover up problems.

To some extent, shock absorbers are used the same way. If a tire is correctly balanced it won't bounce when going down a smooth road even without a damper.
 

Premium Member
Joined
816 Posts
Discussion Starter #69
I have a home alignment kit from Tenhulzen. It works good. Has Toe plates and digital caster, camber gauge.
It has paid for its self many times.
The above post mentions Steering Stabilizer. Is yours new? A worn out one can contribute both, to tire wear, and Death Wobble.
No, the steering stabilizer is old, and not a good brand name to begin with.

When I first did the 98-99 HD T-type steering conversion I found several people that just didn't run a steering stabilizer at all after the conversion (because it doesn't just bolt right back up after the conversion, you have to either modify stuff or buy another part to get it to work). So I figured the old cheapo steering stabilizer I have would be better than none at all.

Maybe I should look at it a little more closely, like take one end of the stabilizer off and see if it has smooth resistance throughout its entire travel stroke.
.
.
.
 

Registered
Joined
7 Posts
Bet it's your BFG tires. It is very common for them to be out of spec and out of round. I've had brand new BFG's that had knots on them and were out of round so bad that they would not balance. Any unusual wear patterns on those tires?
You may also have a wheel that isn't true.
 

Premium Member
Joined
816 Posts
Discussion Starter #71
Holy crap, this truck is like a jealous woman. It sees me spending time and money on the 96 project truck so it starts complaining wanting me to work on it instead.

I work from home sometimes (well, work and surf Cummins Forum anyway), so I used my lunch time to go out and rotate the tires. The dang front brakes are basically shot/ worn out. Seems like I just put those on.


914884
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jimmy N.

Premium Member
Joined
816 Posts
Discussion Starter #72
Bet it's your BFG tires. It is very common for them to be out of spec and out of round. I've had brand new BFG's that had knots on them and were out of round so bad that they would not balance. Any unusual wear patterns on those tires?
You may also have a wheel that isn't true.
Yeah, lots of unusual wear, but only on the front tires only (see pics in post #54). The back tires look brand new. It'd be kind weird that both the front tires have manufacturing defects (knots, out of round, etc) and neither of the rear tires do.
.
.
.
 

Registered
Joined
1,886 Posts
- The other Dana 60 equipped diesel I've been comparing this one to (which doesn't show the same tire wear) is 2010 model (not a dodge though).
Assuming that's a Ford... they use HD (T-style) steering, and increased steering axis inclination (SAI). Also larger unit bearings, balljoints, and spread on the balljoints which keeps the tires/wheels running more true per-thou of component wear. I also think their radius-arm setup is better at controlling axle movement in general - especially caster.
 

Premium Member
Joined
816 Posts
Discussion Starter #74
Assuming that's a Ford... they use HD (T-style) steering, and increased steering axis inclination (SAI). Also larger unit bearings, balljoints, and spread on the balljoints which keeps the tires/wheels running more true per-thou of component wear. I also think their radius-arm setup is better at controlling axle movement in general - especially caster.
Yeap, you guessed it. 2010 Ford F350 with the infamous 6.4L PSD. Not near are reliable as the 12 valve, but man is that one hell of a tow vehicle.
.
.
.
 

Registered
Joined
228 Posts
Well, I'm not sure if the tires are a cause or an effect, but there is definitely something odd going on with the front tires that I've never seen before. There are lugs on the front tires that are worn down significantly farther than the lugs around them (see pics below).

View attachment 914849

View attachment 914850


The rear tires still look like new (which they should for only having 15K -ish miles on them)
tires being out of balance, shops being lazy and not match mounting them and not seating the bead properly. i've gone around with it dozens of times with the "good ol boy" tires shops to get them to fix a wheel vibration.
 

Registered
Joined
228 Posts
No, the steering stabilizer is old, and not a good brand name to begin with.

When I first did the 98-99 HD T-type steering conversion I found several people that just didn't run a steering stabilizer at all after the conversion (because it doesn't just bolt right back up after the conversion, you have to either modify stuff or buy another part to get it to work). So I figured the old cheapo steering stabilizer I have would be better than none at all.

Maybe I should look at it a little more closely, like take one end of the stabilizer off and see if it has smooth resistance throughout its entire travel stroke.
thing is with the T type steering conversion is you have to come up with your own steering stabilizer bracket setup, it should be on the tierod going from wheel to wheel and not the drag link from the pitman arm to the tierod
 

Registered
Joined
228 Posts
I have mixed feelings about using a stabilizer. If used on an axle that works without one, fine, it can help prolong the life of parts. But it seems far too common to use a stabilizer to cover up problems.

To some extent, shock absorbers are used the same way. If a tire is correctly balanced it won't bounce when going down a smooth road even without a damper.
thats not what the steering stabilizer is for in any way. more correctly it should be called as steering damper because its to dampen the roadshock of high speed bump steer that can be disconcerting to people who arent used to it and reduce bumpsteer shock to the steering gearbox. has nothing to do with tire balance
 

Premium Member
Joined
816 Posts
Discussion Starter #79
thing is with the T type steering conversion is you have to come up with your own steering stabilizer bracket setup, it should be on the tierod going from wheel to wheel and not the drag link from the pitman arm to the tierod
I have it going to the drag link

914903
 
  • Like
Reactions: gear_grinder
61 - 80 of 95 Posts
Top