[operator exmark]

My 98.5 24v won't start for the first time. It's been in the high 20's all day. I drove the truck about a mile, shut it down for two hours and now it won't start up. I put in a raptor 100 1k ago. I can hear the lift pump run my grid heater is working (the manifold is warm) but no start. After cranking for 10s the lift pump wants to run for another 10s before it shuts off. Never had this happen, but I never had to turn over the engine more than two or three times. Even when I installed the raptor with empty lines I just turned the key to on until it primed and it fired right up.
I haven't bled the lines yet, figured I'd crack two or three at the valve cover. I'll check for codes tomorrow as well. Should I try starter fluid?
Anything else I should check for? Seems strange it would start up fine than two hours later nothing.
Thanks
Mark

 

[KATOOM]

DONT USE STARTING FLUID. If your grid heaters are in place you could cause a serious explosion and starter fluid can cause the engine to run free out of control of you being able to shut of down. BAD BAD BAD.

If you dont have any codes then it sounds like you may have a leak somewhere or you have a gelling issue. I know its cold out and the last thing you feel like doing is crawling up and around your truck for leaks too. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge? If not then this is a prime example of why they are necessary.

Yes the fuel pump should run after you stop cranking. Thats normal. If you can park it somewhere not in the 20's then it may run just fine tomorrow.

 

[Jimbowe]

Don't use starter fluid!!! If it ignites in the manifold from the grid heaters it will blow up the intercooler and possibly damage the turbo as well.
Check for codes.
Check for fuel before and after the vp44.
If you are getting fuel and the grid heaters are working it should start, Its compression ignition.
Is it spinning at normal starting speed?

 

[texasborn01]

If you didn't see it from the topgun guys above (more experinced)
Take it form a newbie Do Not USE starter fluid...Not even a pinch of a spray Some guys THINK they know the right amount (seen one done on a smaller diesel engine not pretty).
Remove the thought from your mine unless you are doing a "you tube" disrtuction video.

Are you using any anti-gelling fuel addaitve or winter fuel mix (prior to this problem)?

Hope this adds to the solution.

Later.... No starting fluid

 

[operator exmark]

So I guess I won't be using starter fluid:thumbsup:
Its cranking great! BTW
I didn't think it would gel as its been in the teens all week, but about 29F this evening. We have winter diesel here in PA (We better cause I've been getting 2mpg fewer since October) Also doesn't running 2cycle prevent gelling?
Gauges come next after I recover from buying the Raptor.
So if I don't pull any codes then its a fuel problem? Conversely if there's fuel on one side of the IP but not the other it's electrical? Its supposed to go up to 39F this afternoon that should be warm enough?
I've checked for leaks, its pretty dry. As long as have fuel at the IP I should be good though?

 

[KATOOM]

So I guess I won't be using starter fluid:thumbsup:
I didn't think it would gel as its been in the teens all week, but about 29F this evening. We have winter diesel here in PA (We better cause I've been getting 2mpg fewer since October) Also doesn't running 2cycle prevent gelling?
Gauges come next after I recover from buying the Raptor.
So if I don't pull any codes then its a fuel problem? Conversely if there's fuel on one side of the IP but not the other it's electrical? Its supposed to go up to 39F this afternoon that should be warm enough?

No, two stroke oil does nothing to prevent gelling and you will find out if thats your problem when the temps get as warm as you said.
And yes, if you have fuel going to the VP and coming out of the VP then it should start. If theres fuel going in but not coming out then you have a VP problem. If there's no fuel getting to the VP then you have either gelling or fuel pump problems.....or fuel supply problems. Do you have fuel? Guys have had incorrect fuel gauges and unknowingly ran out of fuel.:thumbsup:

 

[Ops]

Don't forget that the VP has a fuse somewhere..

Ops

 

[KATOOM]

Don't forget that the VP has a fuse somewhere..

Ops

Yes thats true. There is a relay in the fuse box under the hood and if that relay quits then it generates a code.

 

[operator exmark]

Alright I can't pull codes because I have a 98.5 and I'm stuck at school. No CEL does that help? I have good pressure going into the VP. I loosened the lines at the #1 and#3 injectors (all I could reach with my crecent wrench). After a few cranks I got a few bubbles and drips pulsing out. Cranked some more didn't get any better. Is this all the fuel the VP puts out? I've done 4 or 5 10s cranks and I don't want to kill the battery. No power to VP? Dying VP? or should I keep bleeding?

 

[WalkerMike]

may sound crazy but my buddies truck did the same thing. There is an electronic module on the top of the vp44. Used wifes hairdryer on it for 10 minutes and fired right up. He had to do this anytime it was below 40 degrees. This is also with the truck plugged in. Did this for over 3 months until he could afford a new vp.

 

[Russ Roth]

Blue Chip Diesel Performance Specialists

 

[KATOOM]

Alright I can't pull codes because I have a 98.5 and I'm stuck at school. No CEL does that help? I have good pressure going into the VP. I loosened the lines at the #1 and#3 injectors (all I could reach with my crecent wrench). After a few cranks I got a few bubbles and drips pulsing out. Cranked some more didn't get any better. Is this all the fuel the VP puts out? I've done 4 or 5 10s cranks and I don't want to kill the battery. No power to VP? Dying VP? or should I keep bleeding?

If you checked to make sure the VP relay is OK by switching with another and still nothing.....then it sounds like your VP quit electronically and not mechanically. This happens more than people think. The solder in the VP's computer (on top of the injection pump) which Bosch used on the old VP's was poor quality and deteriorated from heat. Eventually leading to injection pump failure. You can call around to some VP44 vendors to assure yourself but I'm saying thats what happened..........unless you ran out of fuel. Did you even check that possibility?

 

[CUMMINS OUTLAW]

i kinda got the same problem going on. i only have been getting problems since winter started here in wisconsin. last time my truck wouldnt start i just switched the fuel filter out and got the old fuel out of the filter canister then added half fuel and half diesel 911 the red bottle. Then it started right up the 2nd try. now i thaught the same thing cuz my trucks been sitting for a few weeks and i drained out that fuel again and added new fuel and diesel 911. This time truck still wont start. Fuel pump runs for 10 seconds after tryin to start it. im confused now. unless my vp44 took a dump.:confused013:

 

[operator exmark]

Yeah I think its an electrical problem in the IP. I have fuel only 100 mi on the tank. I loosened the banjo fitting on the line between the filter and the IP and got fuel all over the engine bay. Cracked the lines at #1 and#3 injector only got a little foam. I pulled the IP plug and got 11 volts between the supply and the ground. From what I gathered from bluechipdiesel this confirms a dead vp44.

 

[CUMMINS OUTLAW]

Yeah I think its an electrical problem in the IP. I have fuel only 100 mi on the tank. I loosened the banjo fitting on the line between the filter and the IP and got fuel all over the engine bay. Cracked the lines at #1 and#3 injector only got a little foam. I pulled the IP plug and got 11 volts between the supply and the ground. From what I gathered from bluechipdiesel this confirms a dead vp44.

But y would the fuel pump still run if its dead? U can hear it suck fuel in and when u are done crankin tryin to start the truck u hear the fuel pump running again? How is it dead if still running??

 

[Jimbowe]

But y would the fuel pump still run if its dead? U can hear it suck fuel in and when u are done crankin tryin to start the truck u hear the fuel pump running again? How is it dead if still running??

I believe what he is saying is there are two pumps, (# one) a lift pump that supplies fuel to the (# two) injection pump (VP44). It's the VP44 that has the problem, not the lift pump. It's the lift pump he hears running.

 

[operator exmark]

Yeah the lift pump is brand new. I just wish the previous owner had put it on 95,000 mi ago

 

[wcuhillbilly]

so your getting foam out of the injector lines at the head???? This sounds like air in the lines. bleeding the injection lines is really a 2 person job..... Trust me our old shop loader neaded the lines bleed on a weekly basis........ have someone crank while you crack the lines, then you tighten them BEFORE they stop cranking. if they stop cranking before you tighten the lines, then you have just started back at square one. the lift pump will not force fuel past the injection pump... the internal valve of the injection pump has to be activated for fuel to go to the injectors.

 

[KATOOM]

so your getting foam out of the injector lines at the head???? This sounds like air in the lines. bleeding the injection lines is really a 2 person job..... Trust me our old shop loader neaded the lines bleed on a weekly basis........ have someone crank while you crack the lines, then you tighten them BEFORE they stop cranking. if they stop cranking before you tighten the lines, then you have just started back at square one. the lift pump will not force fuel past the injection pump... the internal valve of the injection pump has to be activated for fuel to go to the injectors.

I've heard this before about the LP not pushing past the VP but all I can say is that my fuel pumps always pushed past my VP enough to bleed the lines. Even with the stock LP.:thumbsup:

 

[operator exmark]

Yes I cracked the lines while my friend cranked. I only cranked in 10 second bursts, but the fuel didn't seem to have much pressure just a drip. Maybe I loosened the nut too much or should have cranked longer. Problem is being stuck at school, I can get to two lines with my crescent wrench. I'll try again tomorrow.