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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Saw this but wanted to start a thread for the interested folks.

First of all I don’t think there will be a recall
Second I was under the impression that the fuel pumps had inline filtration AFTER the pump to assist if there was s failure
Third - how would a failed system justify a new engine? Ford and GM have two fuel rails and two more injectors and never* had an engine replacement


1400 miles strong but apparently I’m close to a failure


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White Lightning
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Nice to see Chrysler sent them a brand, new Cummings......
 

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There is no filter between the cp4 and the rail.
When the cp4 goes it take the injectors with it. I've not heard of needing a new engine but a whole new fuel system. I suppose if there is catastrophic failure it could take out some pistons. Entire engine seams iffy though.
Going to geuss that is a troll picture or something of the sort.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
There is no filter between the cp4 and the rail.
When the cp4 goes it take the injectors with it. I've not heard of needing a new engine but a whole new fuel system. I suppose if there is catastrophic failure it could take out some pistons. Entire engine seams iffy though.
Going to geuss that is a troll picture or something of the sort.


Similar to what I thought.

My understanding on the filter was more of a screen. Similar to this
https://www.wcfab.com/i-31420523-exergy-performance-system-saver-improved-stock-inlet-metering-valve-fca-mprop.html

My mistake in calling it a filter


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Discussion Starter #7
Man I dont know how much I'd trust 25micron to save some injectors.

Considering it peaks at over 29,000 PSI I tend to agree with you.


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I don't understand why Cummins went with the CP4(I know they needed higher pressure/fuel delivery for higher torque). GM stopped using it and Ford has lawsuits over that pump, all because it comes apart internally and takes out the entire EFI system. Ford usually blames it on contaminated fuel, and denies the warranty. I'm glad I have the CP3.
 

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I don't understand why Cummins went with the CP4(I know they needed higher pressure/fuel delivery for higher torque). GM stopped using it and Ford has lawsuits over that pump, all because it comes apart internally and takes out the entire EFI system. Ford usually blames it on contaminated fuel, and denies the warranty. I'm glad I have the CP3.
If I am not mistaken the current class action for the CP4 (CP4.2) includes Ford, GM, FCA and Bosch as defendants. I am not sure why Cummins/FCA would have gone with the Bosch CP4 when there are other options out there (Denso?) and there is current pending litigation with that pump and higher than average known failures on the EcoDiesel with that pump.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
I bet it has everything to do with cost. Litigations or not if they can make 500,000 trucks and it costs $200/truck they will follow the money.

EPA is getting tighter and tighter with restrictions not allowing for any really R&D to take place to help consumers because they don’t care about consumers. Manufactures are left with systems that are out there already.

Yes Denso pumps are available but we have to remember these trucks and the way the new integration has been working has been in the works for YEARS. Likely before the lawsuits and consistent trend of garbage pumps.

I don’t expect a recall or pump replacement even though it would in the long run likely save them millions.

In general they will likely come to find out it’s a problem child OR they may not. CP3s failed (arguably not as much as the yeas if CP4) but this could be trolling or it could be fake or it could be real when it comes to reports.

All we can do is run quality fuel, additives and report here if anything happens. (Even if the fuel and additives have proven ineffective before as pumps still fail)




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that's funny this came up I'm waiting on a factory order as we speak and found out after the fact that fca was dumb enough to use the cp4.2 in the 19's I'm actually second thinking on going through with it there's 2 class action suites going on because of this pump (GM and Ford) don't know if anybody actually read it but basically those pumps were not designed to run on ulsd we have in the states because it relise soly on the fuel to lubricate it it was designed for europe so by running ulsd through it it eats itself kinda like trying to run 3in1 oil in a car engine and both ford and gm supposedly were aware of this and rolled the dice anyway on top of that more so ford but also gm have been denying warranty claims based on blaming people for running contaminated fuel i know of one ford owner that shoved it right down their throats they pulled that on him he imediatly stopped the service writer said take me to my truck now give me the keys as soon as he had control of the vehicle he asked for the lab report documentation of the said contaminates and they could not produce it which they never can it's a baseless claim he then had his own test done by a third party and fuel test came back clean. A second ford owner same thing but he took them at their word and tried to get it covered by his insurance and go after the fuel station insurance company sent someone out to pull samples and guess what came back clean. maybe I'm just being paronoid but I'd rather not get stuck with a 10k bill on something that should be warrantied well maybe a little less than 10k for a cummins being that there's not 2 rails and 8 injectors
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I agree but let’s be honest on one thing.

It’s not going to be 10,000.00
Those are V8 numbers that have two banks of high pressure fuel rails and two additional injectors not to mention all the garbage in the way to get to them.

You can buy CP4 pumps for $1300-1500 single fuel lines for cheaper than two and 6 injectors vs 8.

I would expect a DIY to be in the range of 4-5000 high end and paying someone could touch $6-7000

Don’t look at the Duramax and certainly not the powerstroke numbers for repair cost estimates


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I agree but let’s be honest on one thing.

It’s not going to be 10,000.00
Those are V8 numbers that have two banks of high pressure fuel rails and two additional injectors not to mention all the garbage in the way to get to them.

You can buy CP4 pumps for $1300-1500 single fuel lines for cheaper than two and 6 injectors vs 8.

I would expect a DIY to be in the range of 4-5000 high end and paying someone could touch $6-7000

Don’t look at the Duramax and certainly not the powerstroke numbers for repair cost estimates


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hence the last statement I said in my post that it would likely be a little less to do not having 2 rails and 8 injectors. Not that i can't but I sure as wouldn't be doing that job myself when it would be clearly warranty if a dealer pulled that on me first thing would be a lawyer if that failed I'd surely be in jail because said truck would end up in the middle of their show room on fire lol
 
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I bet it has everything to do with cost. Litigations or not if they can make 500,000 trucks and it costs $200/truck they will follow the money.

EPA is getting tighter and tighter with restrictions not allowing for any really R&D to take place to help consumers because they don’t care about consumers. Manufactures are left with systems that are out there already.

Yes Denso pumps are available but we have to remember these trucks and the way the new integration has been working has been in the works for YEARS. Likely before the lawsuits and consistent trend of garbage pumps.

I don’t expect a recall or pump replacement even though it would in the long run likely save them millions.

In general they will likely come to find out it’s a problem child OR they may not. CP3s failed (arguably not as much as the yeas if CP4) but this could be trolling or it could be fake or it could be real when it comes to reports.

All we can do is run quality fuel, additives and report here if anything happens. (Even if the fuel and additives have proven ineffective before as pumps still fail)




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I definitely see and agree with your point. In a way though the move still doesn't make sense to me, the issues with the CP4.2 (and variants) used with American diesel have been known for some time.

I guess this is more spitballing, but if it is proven in court that they (they being the big three + Bosch) knew (foreknowledge) they were using a problem prone pump that would fail prematurely they could be in for a lot more than simple recalls. This has the same smell as the Takata airbag issue to me.
 
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that's funny this came up I'm waiting on a factory order as we speak and found out after the fact that fca was dumb enough to use the cp4.2 in the 19's I'm actually second thinking on going through with it there's 2 class action suites going on because of this pump (GM and Ford) don't know if anybody actually read it but basically those pumps were not designed to run on ulsd we have in the states because it relise soly on the fuel to lubricate it it was designed for europe so by running ulsd through it it eats itself kinda like trying to run 3in1 oil in a car engine and both ford and gm supposedly were aware of this and rolled the dice anyway on top of that more so ford but also gm have been denying warranty claims based on blaming people for running contaminated fuel i know of one ford owner that shoved it right down their throats they pulled that on him he imediatly stopped the service writer said take me to my truck now give me the keys as soon as he had control of the vehicle he asked for the lab report documentation of the said contaminates and they could not produce it which they never can it's a baseless claim he then had his own test done by a third party and fuel test came back clean. A second ford owner same thing but he took them at their word and tried to get it covered by his insurance and go after the fuel station insurance company sent someone out to pull samples and guess what came back clean. maybe I'm just being paronoid but I'd rather not get stuck with a 10k bill on something that should be warrantied well maybe a little less than 10k for a cummins being that there's not 2 rails and 8 injectors
There is even less sulphur in Europe,s refined diesel. It’s just that the fuel is more refined. Nothing to do with sulphur as the lubricant.
 

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Sulfur isnt the lube in fuel I thought.
Also since the cp4.2 was designed well after the switch to current ulsd wouldn't it stand to reason it was designed for the current lube level of the fuel?
 

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Sulfur isnt the lube in fuel I thought.
Also since the cp4.2 was designed well after the switch to current ulsd wouldn't it stand to reason it was designed for the current lube level of the fuel?
Stop it with all of this common sense thinking.....
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Sulfur isnt the lube in fuel I thought.
Also since the cp4.2 was designed well after the switch to current ulsd wouldn't it stand to reason it was designed for the current lube level of the fuel?


You would think. Bad fuel with water in it doesn’t help matters. That roller in there will not tolerate large deviations from design.

I am going to make a bold and early prediction but I suspect the failures we will see or experience will related to just that (water or bad fuel).
However our newly designed WIF sensor will probably let us down




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Also since the cp4.2 was designed well after the switch to current ulsd wouldn't it stand to reason it was designed for the current lube level of the fuel?
Not necessarily, it was designed for a different market all together.

I am not going to claim to be an expert, and someone may come along to correct me, but my understanding is this.

The CP4 was designed for the European market, smaller displacement engines (and fuels). When a higher pressure pump was required for the U.S. market the CP4 was redesigned to the CP4.2 (second piston) to deliver more volume for the larger American engines. Everything else about the pump remained the same, hence its inability to deal with poor quality U.S. fuels. As has been discussed before, there is a reason the Diesel additive market is strong. The cetane level and quality of your fuel varies from place to place, even across town and from station to station in many cases. Very few places have higher cetane or more refined diesel (referred to as Premium Diesel) in the U.S..
 
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