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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well this is my first post, I've been searching the site for some time after I purchased my truck. Very helpful forum. I'm a heavy equipment mechanic, mainly working on cat. equipment and mack trucks but i love my cummins! I know the new 3rd gen's using the CP3 pump have multiple injection events to quiet the motor down. I have been toying with the idea of useing a hydrogen setup. Most poeple say that it is not worth it, but the technology is there and will work imo. But does anyone know at what rpm the cp3 goes to a single injection event instead of two? The pilot injection would just burn off the hydrogen with no benefit in mileage due to no effect on the main injection process. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks guys!
 

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The injection events are controlled by the ecm. 03/04 trucks have 2 events(pre & main), 04.5 and up have 3 events(pre, main & post). They are for meeting emmision standards.

I am not sure you could time the spray to match the injection timing as it's constantly changing.
 

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I realize that the computer controls all of that but there has to be a point in the rpm range where the multiple injections becomes one. The engine spinning at the higher rpms will not allow for enough time to do all three and the added fuel makes the exhaust temps higher which burns the fuel cleaner anyway, which should make the multiple injections not necessary. The timing of injecting the Hydrogen isn't the concern as its just going to be sucked into the intake stream and distributed. The engine only sucks air in once for all three injections, correct? I personally feel like the added events is a mistake by cummins and wish you could remove them. Maybe the engine is quieter but we all know how dirty our oil is. I have a 7.3 powerstorke in my service truck and after 7k miles(do oil changes on hrs not miles), the oil is still honey color and the engine has almost 300k on it. Just wasting fuel on the cummins, and we wonder why the mileage is worse than the 2nd gen 24v's....
 

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we are working on this, i have a lot of contact's at cummins here is what we have found so far. the cp3 is a piston pump that supplies rail pressure the ecm controlles the injection events we devoted our time on the 06 as we have three of them and our 03's do not have a lot of the problems the 04.5 to 07.5's have. the camshaft will have to be changed out because of some things they are doing with the exhaust valve lobe for in cylinder egr they did increase compression to help with the severely retarded timing so a lot of timing advance is needed, no one that i am aware of has been able to move the timing event of the 3rd pulse closer to the 2nd but the timing advance moves all 3 and therefore helps immensely, as far as hydrogen generator goes do not waste your time , we tested one for a local it uses more energy than it produced. you will get a huge benefit in mileage adding a little methanol with that water and injecting it in the intake horn
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
If you dont mind me asking, What was your test vehicle for the generator? There has to be some benefit to it? I just dont see so many people adding generators and having great results if it doesn't work at all?? Maybe on the 3rd gens there isn't because of the added fuel events? Also my bully dog does not change timing right? it would have to be changed manually? Don't typically mess with injection timing much, just put the pumps in and set them to the factory settings. I've just been trying to figure out something we can help do to save the company money. We burn around 100,000 gallons of fuel a week...you can do the math.. gets a little on the pricey side when even off road fuel is 4.50 a gallon. Thanks guys.
 

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From what I recall the 3rd event gets even larger as rpms increase. It doesn't ever become one event. I beleive that Marco/Bob tired removing the 3rd injection event on the 04.5 and lost a bunch of power, so back into the programing it went...

I would like to see a cam that is stock profile minus the in cylinder EGR thou, I would expect cleaner oil, cooler EGT's, more hp, and most of all more MPG's :D
 

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But does anyone know at what rpm the cp3 goes to a single injection event instead of two? The pilot injection would just burn off the hydrogen with no benefit in mileage due to no effect on the main injection process. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks guys!
The ECU never goes to a single injection event. All combustion strokes have at leats 2 events, pilot and main. On the 04.5+ trucks the 3rd event is added but only at a certain load and higher rpm.Its all part of the design and programming.

Its possible to reprogram the pre 04.5 ECU's to use a single event and advance the timing for better economy, but, it isn't easy. It take some specialized equipment and knowledge to do it. The results are pretty good for the most part and adding the hydrogen may benefit a bit more at that point.

One point to keep in mind, these hydrogen generators can have a large amperage draw on the electrical system. In our trucks where the systems are already fairly well sized it is not as big an issue, but, there is the chance the extra load could induce unwanted electrical malfs. Shielding and isolation will be critical.
 

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The only people I read about who claim to get better mpg from hydrogen are the ones selling either a hydrogen generator or the directions on how to make one.
 

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cerb is correct the watt draw from the alternator exceeded the energy produced you can see it at idle with a digital tachometer , if you think about it it is only going to get worse at load if the turbo is pumping 300 cfm of air into the motor and the generator only produces 0.001 cfm of hydrogen the volume is not there . it is like drinking bear and urinating in a swimming pool to raise the level of water the evaporative loss is grater than the amount you add. propane fuel injection does add enough to work and does work well
 

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cerb is correct the watt draw from the alternator exceeded the energy produced you can see it at idle with a digital tachometer , if you think about it it is only going to get worse at load if the turbo is pumping 300 cfm of air into the motor and the generator only produces 0.001 cfm of hydrogen the volume is not there . it is like drinking bear and urinating in a swimming pool to raise the level of water the evaporative loss is grater than the amount you add. propane fuel injection does add enough to work and does work well
Which hydrogen generator did you test? There is a lot of garbage out there etc, but there are units that actually work well. I am considering W2E, Incorporated - Hydrogen Direct Digital Injection System - Wildfire.com - Water2Electricity.com. Was yours homebuilt? Storebought? What brand model etc...
 
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