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Discussion Starter #1
Hey All,

Want to start this post as I'm really thinking about doing all of this in my driveway, I just want to gather people's thoughts in this thread and possibly do an extensive write up again. It seams all the old threads are incomplete or Photobucket has blurred out the images (heisting of the photos, round 2).

Bit of history, 04.5 Cummins, 6sp. I've done pretty thorough write ups on here that were pic heavy having to do with dropping and re-sealing the oil pan, as well as the front crank seal as well. All in order to solve a leak since I've owned the truck (2012).

Rear mains, front crank seal/timing cover, new oil pan gasket, breather tubing, puck, nothing has solved the issue. It really has to be one more thing, and that's the timing gear housing cover to block interface.

Most of the threads I've ready have to do with oil dripping off the passenger side onto the A/C comp, and it's solve by pulling all the parts to get to the "slope" of the timing case where the 2 bolts are far apart, and people will seal that crack with RTV and be good. Unfortunately, that's not where my leak is originating. I was able to snap this photo, this is looking under the CP3:



I'm unsure of how high the leak starts, but it's coming down the driver side, collecting on top of the block where the oil pan bolts, runs to the back of the block, then down the bellhousing/back of pan. It does not look like I can get back there to seal anything up with gasketmaker there's not a lot of room. There is NO oil on the passenger side at all

So it's looking like I'm going to have to pull everything.

I called the dealerships around my area, wanted $3500 to do this. They all pull the entire cam assembly out, despite reading and hearing that there is a puller that is used by some places to pull that cam gear off, which would simplify everything. But no one I talked to would do that.

So it may be up to me to get all this done outside in the driveway, in the PNW fall where it rains 25 hours a day.

The teardown is pretty straight forward as I understand it, but I have a couple questions. My plan is to pull the oil pan again since there are some mating surfaces that require a dab of RTV to be completely sealed. This is going to require the use of the cherry picker to lift the engine enough to drop the pickup tube and then clear the axle. I was able to do this last go around by loosening the engine mounts and rotating the engine up on the passenger side enough. There were no transmission nuts/bolts removed though for this. I'm trying to avoid cutting the lower support to get the CAM out.

So here's what I'm thinking as a removal process (edited):

1) Drain coolant from radiator as well as the oil.
2) Massive bumper
3) Fan assembly/shroud (with the special tooling)
4) Hoses, Radiator, intercooler, unbolt condenser and let it hang out of the way
5) Upper support
6) Belt
7) Harmonic Balancer
8) Tensioner
9) Un-bolt power steering assembly and rotate out of the way
9.2) Notch frame to remove lower radiator support: https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/23167226-post2.html
10) Timing cover bolts, pop the timing cover off (this has a VERY nice bead of RTV from me last time...
10.2) Rotate the engine to TDC (line up the crank/cam "0"s)
11) Move under the truck, oil pan bolts, loosen motor mounts/possibly transmission mount bolt/nut*
12) Cherry pick the engine up and yard the pan out
13) Let the engine back down on its mounts and move back to the top
14) Take valve the cover off
15) Rockers/rods**
16) Chopstick and zip tie/rubber band method to hold tappets in place (although if they fall it's not detrimental since the oil pan is off?)
17) Cherry pick the engine back up to clear the lower brace
18) Yard the cam assembly out
19) ***gears?
20) timing gear housing
21) Replace gasket****
22) Reverse everything

So a few questions and feel free to add anything, this was just from the top of my head

11)* Is it necessary to loosen the transmission mounting hardware? It wasn't to just drop the oil pan, there was enough flex

15)** I've read about people pulling the injector harness and injectors...is this necessary (I don't think so?) Is there anything else under the cover that I'm forgetting that needs to go?

19)*** Is there any trick for the CP3 gear to pop off? Then I'm guessing you have to un-bolt the CP3 from that housing? Is it ok to let it hang after that?

21)****Does anyone favor something like "The Right Stuff" for sealing the mating surface between the block and timing gear housing rather than the gasket (similar to sealing to timing cover to the timing housing)? I've sealed many of oil pans and mating surfaces with great success so I'm wondering if it would work better in this location over a gasket in the long term?

A couple more things...in case my cam doesn't look good, I have a buddy that pulled a new 6.7 cam/tappets from an engine that he used for a 5.9/6.7 swap to go to an aftermarket cam. I don't think I'd be gaining anything (if anything at all, it may not perform as well because of the emissions criteria on the newer engines), but if I need am I correct in thinking I could just swap them and the tappets out?

I think since I will be doing the work myself, I'm going to a billet timing cover. Yest they are a lot of $$, but I'm thinking for the future crank seal replacements if and when...you only have to remove the harmonic balancer and seal cover to remove and install a new seal...instead of breaking the cover seal:



Anyway, any other tips, tricks, or thoughts are appreciated in advance. Like I mentioned, I plan on doing a writeup on this for all of the other lost/incomplete threads out there!
 

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When I had mine done by a buddy that worked at a dealer I was able to help him with it a little bit and he unbolted the fenders for the most part and we used big pry bars to pull them apart to remove the lower brace. It was a bit nerve racking as you have to be gentle yet forceful but it worked. You open it up just enough to get the brace out.
The rest I don’t really have many answers for you as he had done this repair many times and for the most part I felt like I was in his way more than helping haha.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
When I had mine done by a buddy that worked at a dealer I was able to help him with it a little bit and he unbolted the fenders for the most part and we used big pry bars to pull them apart to remove the lower brace. It was a bit nerve racking as you have to be gentle yet forceful but it worked. You open it up just enough to get the brace out.
The rest I don’t really have many answers for you as he had done this repair many times and for the most part I felt like I was in his way more than helping haha.
I am not going to have a second set of hands for most of this, so that's not really an option. Not too keen on "prying" things apart. I'd rather cut that lower crossmember and make it a bolt in application for the future if it comes to that.

But since the oil pan will be off and I have the tools to lift the engine, I'd like to try and clear that lower support (I've read some success stories of doing this but want to confirm before I'm that deep into the project
 

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Discussion Starter #5
How bad is the leak?
It's bugged me since I've had the truck, I've put a lot of blood and sweat into chasing it down, so it's bad enough that I'm doing this. I think I was 2+ qt low on my last oil change. It only leaves a few drips in the driveway, but it's coated my pan after driving and the wind, etc. The last go around it had started to eat the clearcoat on my pan. Re-coated the pan and it's starting to wear on that paint. It's the last leak on the truck so I'd like to get er fixed correctly. It's not my DD so it's ok if the truck is down for a bit of time as I'm expecting it to be.
 

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I have the passenger side leak but not bad (never drips) just enough to blow, migrate around and lightly coat things near AC. 2 quarts will make a mess and nobody likes leaks but I would need a more compelling reason to go that deep.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have the passenger side leak but not bad (never drips) just enough to blow, migrate around and lightly coat things near AC. 2 quarts will make a mess and nobody likes leaks but I would need a more compelling reason to go that deep.
Sounds like your fix could be quite easy then with just pulling a few things to expose the timing cover and laying a bead of "the right stuff" gasket maker in the groove that notoriously leaks, seen here:



This is where the largest gap between the mounting bolts for the gear housing is. Sometimes the gasket deteriorates here or just doesn't seal and many have fixed semi-permanently.

This unfortunately, is not my situation. But if it doesn't bother you, then no worries. I have a commuter vehicle so I can afford to have the truck down while I do this repair.
 

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Hey krash. My truck is my DD but with the money I’ll save from doing it myself I might rent a cheap car for a few days.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hey krash. My truck is my DD but with the money I’ll save from doing it myself I might rent a cheap car for a few days.
Yup it's probably worth it to do that.

Not being home on the weekends really only gives me a few hours each evening to work, so I'm going to take my time and not be worried if the truck is down for a few days. Going to work methodically and carefully. We'll get er' done and hopefully I'll have a really detailed write up on this for whoever decides to tackle this in the future.

Just ordered my D&J timing cover
 

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Thats where mine was leaking also. Now my oil pan has a leak Lol
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Does that D&J timing cover allow the installation and removal of a wear sleeve for the crank shaft if you want it?
You may be able to install the wear sleeve with the cover on, but if you ever had to replace the wear sleeve you'd have to take it off since you'd basically need to split the wear sleeve somehow. From what I've heard though, those wear sleeves will last a LONG time. You'll be changing the seal out before that thing will wear. The D&J timing cover does allow you to install/remove a new seal without removing the cover. The only thing you need to do is pop off the harmonic balancer. No fan assembly removal, belt, tensioner, PS pump, cover, etc. Just that piece on the timing cover. My buddy got one for his 6.7 and that piece that comes off also installs the seal to the correct depth, so no messing with the depth tool and tapping the seal in.
@ADawg, yours is leaking from where I posted a pic, or it's leaking down the passenger side?

Also, has anyone opted out of the gasket between the block and the gear housing in lieu of something like "The Right Stuff" gasketmaker? I believe the 6.7's don't have a traditional gasket there and use some sort of gasketmaker. May be better for the vibrations and twisting of the engine the mighty C can be subjected to...
 

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I think mine was coming from the passenger side cause it was dripping off the ac compressor bracket. But it was leaking pretty bad. I had the shop put a replacement gasket and high temp gasket maker on the outside of the gear plate. I wish I could post a pic but photo bucket is weird now.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I think mine was coming from the passenger side cause it was dripping off the ac compressor bracket. But it was leaking pretty bad. I had the shop put a replacement gasket and high temp gasket maker on the outside of the gear plate. I wish I could post a pic but photo bucket is weird now.
Yup that sounds like the classic deterioration spot for that gasket to give and leak down the passenger side (the sloped part of the gear housing).

So for OEM (at least on the 5.9) it uses a gasket between the gear housing and the block, and then just some version of RTV for the timing cover to the gear housing.

I'm thinking about running a bead of RTV in both locations (like the 6.7's) and just eliminating the gasket all together. Def not going to run both in one spot. Just not sure the success rates of this method on the 5.9, but I wouldn't think it'd be an issue and saves me from purchasing that gasket.

And yes, big middle finger to Photobucket. So many useless threads now because of their BS greed. Few of my detailed threads on here are toast because of them
 

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Not sure where mine is leaking yet cuz I havnt dug in yet. Pre planning stage. Definitely gonna do a trial of a bead of Motorcraft 7.3 around the gear case before I pull everything and do it right.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Does anyone have experience using this FelPro gasket for the oil pan? It's for a 6.7 but there is no difference in the pans between the 6.7 and 5.9.

I like the fact that it has raised silicone ridges on the gasket:

FelPro OS 30870:



Ended up getting the MAHLE Original OS32381, which is very similar.

Also ordered "The Right Stuff" (grey and black) with their caulking gun. I've had horrible luck with their dispensing system that's integrated within the tubes, usually lasts 1 or 2x

Also, some FelPro "snap-ups". Will be useful for me during assembly of the oil pan and gasket doing it solo:





 

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Discussion Starter #17
Throwing out another question.

I ordered a genuine OEM Cummins crank seal/sleeve for the front crank. I only have a hint of a groove, not from the crank seal but from the harder dust seal. There is a good polishing on the crank from the seal though

I planned on sleeving it because I didn't want to worry about the crank anymore. What's the life expectancy of the sleeve/seal? I've also read that you cannot just buy the oversized seal and that you need the entire kit if you ever have to replace the seal again.

I've also been reading about the 2 front crank seal method. Now I'm not sure what the best option to go with is.

Anyone have some real life data on how long their OEM sleeve/seal lasted? I'd rather not have to remove the sleeve again (via dremel) if I need to replace it again.

As well, I don't think the Cummins OEM sleeve/seal kit came with a dust seal (it's the harder tapered seal that goes on the outside of the crank seal). I've read that it's not needed anymore with the new design or something? I know for a fact when I replaced the crank seal last go around (last summer) it had that dust seal....

Edit: seems the new kits don't come with that dust seal and/or most toss them out anyway

Just looking for some direction to go this time as this is a pretty decent project that I don't want to repeat.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Bumping this up for visibility.

Not sure if anyone has confirmed or denied, can the cam clear the lower brace during an engine hoist lift to get the pan out from under the truck?
I'm likely not going this route but wanted to check to see if anyone had done this.

Edit: For those that have done this, what have you done with your CP3 after unbolting from the gear housing? Let it hang (rig something up so there are no stress on any lines)? I think I'm just going to remove it with the timing gear housing, sounds the easiest.
 

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I just did what you’re planning to do. Don’t remove the gear from the cam. It is faster & easier to remove them as a unit even though it’s more steps. Plus you’ll get to inspect the cam/bushings. Cummins recommends loctite gray. I did double up my seals & so far it’s bone dry. I’d refrain from sleeving the crank until your positive it is grooved too deep for the seal to seal plus if you double them up you’ll have to bump the outer most seal further forward to get the second seal in which will put both seals out of the current wear pattern. Go ahead & cut your core support, you’ll still get 2 of the 4 bolts on one side to hold it in place. Seems like a hack job but no one except you will know. Tear into it, it’s not that bad. I don’t know if you’ve pulled your fan clutch before but mine was lefty loosey, not righty loosey like every post I’ve read has stated.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I just did what you’re planning to do. Don’t remove the gear from the cam. It is faster & easier to remove them as a unit even though it’s more steps. Plus you’ll get to inspect the cam/bushings. Cummins recommends loctite gray. I did double up my seals & so far it’s bone dry. I’d refrain from sleeving the crank until your positive it is grooved too deep for the seal to seal plus if you double them up you’ll have to bump the outer most seal further forward to get the second seal in which will put both seals out of the current wear pattern. Go ahead & cut your core support, you’ll still get 2 of the 4 bolts on one side to hold it in place. Seems like a hack job but no one except you will know. Tear into it, it’s not that bad. I don’t know if you’ve pulled your fan clutch before but mine was lefty loosey, not righty loosey like every post I’ve read has stated.
I wasn't planning on removing the cam gear, I'm taking it out as a unit

Loctite Gray for what? Doubled up which seals? The cam seal? RTV and a gasket behind the timing gear housing?


I never planned on doubling up the crank seals. I've done the crank seal before and did a how-to write-up on here with some detailed photos of what my crank looked like (https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-powertrain/2247690-3rd-gen-front-crank-seal-timing-cover-r-r.html). There was a shiny spot, but it was not worn into the crank. Then there was a wear spot, but it looked to be from that black dust seal (which I will not be using this time) that came with the OEM crank seal I put in. The crank seal this time will be easy, I bought a D&J billet timing cover which has a bolt on cap that you press the seal into, and the cap sets the correct depth of the crank seal by just drawing the bolts in. Lets you put the timing cover on first and then you can do the crank seal without taking the cover on/off in the future. But I'll make a game time decision whether to sleeve it or not. I'll likely post up here to get opinions.


I think I'm going to go notching the frame route. I like keeping all the bolts in place. If I feel it's not going to be strong enough, I'll bend up a bracket which can be bolted in place of the material I cut out. There have been a few who have notched the frame without doing any other mods and it's held up structurally ok. I'm not too worried about that one.

Thanks for the encouragement, I've pulled the fan clutch before. I can't remember off the top of my head which way it went, but I have it in my how-to when I did the crank seal before. I'll have to dig that up.

So did you replace the housing gear gasket between the block and the gear housing, or did you just use RTV, or did you use a combo with gasket on RTV? I'm kind of torn right now as I've seen all 3 ways to do it. I don't want to be doing this again so I'm leaning to just using The Right Stuff without a gasket...metal to metal. If if works for the timing cover (no gasket) then it should work and be more permanent here.

Same goes for the oil pan. Debating whether to use a smear of RTV on the pan side under the gasket to hold it in place (dry on top between gasket and block), do a smear on both sides of the gasket, or just send it, omit the gasket, and use The Right Stuff at block-pan interface
 
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