Cummins Diesel Forum banner
Cancel

Clutches

2031 Views 19 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  Valair1, 
J
Ok I have been doing some research on come clutches since mine is apparently starting to slip and I wanted to get some info on the difference in a couple. I was looking at some on alligator performance and I want a clutch that will handle more horsepower so I was looking at one that is supposed to be able to handle like 650 horse but it said no towing and then there was one rated at 550 horse that said ok for towing. The one for towing is just like 20 bucks or so less I think and was wondering since I rarely pull a heavy load if the 650 one would be ok or what the difference is between the two clutches really. They are both dual disc clutches. I just looked they are same price. Here is the page with the list of clutches Valair - Alligator Performance these are the two Im looking at.

VALAIR NMU70G56DDSN - Dual Disc Kit up to 650HP - Fits 05-10 Dodge 5.9L and 6.7L Cummins with G56
MSRP: $1350.00
Our Price: $1295.00

VALAIR NMU70G56DDSN-ORGANIC - Towing Dual Disc Kit up to 550HP - Fits 05-10 Dodge 5.9L and 6.7L Cummins with G56
MSRP: $1300.00
Our Price: $1295.00

What are all of yalls opinions?
Reply
Save
Like
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
lhedrick
Not sure I understand this one.

Either the clutch and pressure plate lock up or they don't. I can't imagine any reasonable amount of power above what is stock that could spin a locked clutch. A stock 5.9 is around 600 foot pounds. I doubt 1000 foot pounds towing 25000 pounds could make it slip. Who would do this anyway.

We get the load moving then lock the clutch and we don't do that while applying 800 foot pounds at 2500 RPM. These things are designed to pull. One day the clutch disk is worn out, it start to slip and we replace it.

I don't see anything special here with regard to one clutch over another.

Why would a manufacturer make a clutch for a diesel truck and say not to tow with it?
Reply
Save
Like
Midnight Smoker
Depends on what you wanna do....the Organic is going to engage smoother, the ceramic will handle a little more abuse. I would look into Valair's Triple disk setup. Supposed to be super smooth engagement & much quieter :thumbsup:
Reply
Save
Like
amero
you might want to look into a south bend clutch they are a bit noisy but they can handle the HP

hope it helps
Reply
Save
Like
Shainer
amero said:
you might want to look into a south bend clutch they are a bit noisy but they can handle the HP

hope it helps
Click to expand...
Um, I think you mean dead quiet. They also have ceramic facing the floater where the majority of heat is generated, as just a little more than Valair.
Reply
Save
Like
J
So there really shouldn't be a problem with the clutch I get even if they say no for towing or yes for towing. This confused me because with other clutches I've bought for older pick ups have never had that designation. I am not looking at adding to much power but am wanting to have the room to increase it without worrying about exploding the clutch.
Reply
Save
Like
J
The most I really ever haul is maybe 10-15 tons and that is not very often
Reply
Save
Like
Rhinopkc
jakegaspari said:
The most I really ever haul is maybe 10-15 tons and that is not very often
Click to expand...
Holy mackerel! That's a big load for a pickup.
Reply
Save
Like
sikmusicfreak8
The way the clutches are designed has a huge impact on whether to tow with them or not. Ceramic disks are usually extemely jerky. They are either engaged or disengaged. Not good for towing where you need some slip to get the load moving. So you have organic clutches that are less harsh for towing that slip a little more. I have the 550hp towing clutch you mentioned, and its still a tad jerky, but a nice clutch.
Reply
Save
Like
lhedrick
I'm not sure I get that. You are saying some clutches are sticky and some are not. Why would that be and why would we ever want a clutch in a high output truck which is not designed to tow. If we were taking about a 1/2 ton truck with a small gas motor that would be one thing but then again you can't even get one of those trucks with a clutch. It doesn't make sense to make clutches for heavy duty trucks and say by the way this clutch is only for people driving the kids to school. The only place I can see this applying is if we are at a dead stop on a grade and we need to get a heavy load moving but this is not the normal condition. Most of the time with a load we start out in 1st gear with a heavy load when normally we would start in 2nd.

I contend a clutch is a clutch.

As for towed load, 15 tons,,,, who tows 30,000 pounds with a pickup? The truck only weighs in at 6000.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
macko300exc
Clutch materials are just like brake pad material. They each have a specific area they are best used for.
Reply
Save
Like
W
ceramic are also made for towing if they weren't they wouldn't put them in class 8
there are three types of material ceramic, organic, or Kevlar but Kevlar is not used as much if you want a stiff grabbing clutch get a ceramic but if you want more slip go organic the ratings to look at are what the ratings are that the disc can hold and how much pressure the pressure plate applies to the discs interm. plate and the flexplate/flywheel.
Reply
Save
Like
sikmusicfreak8
Ceramics are very strong clutches, but they are harsh engaging. Imagine trying to take off with a heavy trailer or backing one up when you virtually have no slip. It's a disaster. Ceramics are usually high horsepower and used for street applications. Organics offer a less harsh enagement for this reason. Hence the reason they are best used for towing. Ceramic would hold the power just fine, but is best used elsewhere.
Reply
Save
Like
J
I meant to say 12 ton not 15 and that is hauling for my father in law who is a farmer/rancher and I know guys that haul 15 ton with their cummins pick ups. I am liking all the input on here that yall have it is really helping me out.
Reply
Save
Like
J
So the 550 hp that I mentioned would probably fit me better with what I do then? I do mostly highway driving but do tow the occational trailer with either wood, iron, or livestock but more so highway. And that 550 should not grenade on me if I want to add more power to my truck by adding mods with my tuner. I dont want to go real high power since it is a daily driver. I'd get a different truck if I wanted a racer. THe stock power on a 2006 5.9 HO is only like 330 hp aint it so I should be safe with a 550 or what do yall think about that.
Reply
Save
Like
1
I have ran a few clutches and everyone on here is dead on . It will be nicer using organic to tow over ceramic however I have hauled plenty with ceramic and I do not mind it. It's like anything it just takes practice in one of my trucks I tow with a centered iron triple disc , a material not mentioned and I have no problems but I and use to running with extreme clutches . I am not trying to be a salesman at all I have ran multiple company's clutches and I must say call Kenny at kennys pulling parts he is wonderful and getting you fixed up right and stands behind his product , he is also not as commercialized and can keep his price down
Reply
Save
Like
chrisford4x4
jakegaspari said:
So there really shouldn't be a problem with the clutch I get even if they say no for towing or yes for towing. This confused me because with other clutches I've bought for older pick ups have never had that designation. I am not looking at adding to much power but am wanting to have the room to increase it without worrying about exploding the clutch.
Click to expand...
Call them an see why they say that.
Reply
Save
Like
J
I'm retired and used to re manufacturer HD clutches for trucks... and sell new clutches for those vehicles we didn't reman for.... if you intend to back up that trailer you tow.. I suggest you look to something other than ceramic... a ceramic friction is either engaged or dis-engaged the the transmission is geared to high to allow you slip the clutch in reverse and back up a trailer...

I owned several stock trucks as we had a variety of drivers running them... we towed trailers up to 20K lbs and did that with stock clutches.... we did this because we had to back them up.. it was easier on the overall power train to use either organic or kevlar friction...

We also replaced the stock needle roller bearing with a roller bearing by turning the flywheels on a lathe before we ground them.... and we did this for all the flywheels we ground... its a simple change that makes the pilot bearing outlast the clutch... thus preventing input shaft damage from a failed pilot bearing....

Perfection Hy-Test... has a very good video on changing out the G-56 clutch... their product is a turn key product... that I know works... and its about 1/2 the price of both the clutches your talking about...

You don't mention if you've turned up the HP or you intend to do that... you just talk about what the Val-air product will handle... remember that the dual mass flywheel can slip when it starts to fail... the flywheel alone has over 120 parts, a lot of them are plastic so when they fail the clutch slips and its actually the flywheel....

I'm very pro, limiting mods and working the trucks... I ran them for 400K miles before I traded... and had great results towing... using just a step up from OEM products... On the other hand... if you have already turned up the HP or intend to do so... please move on to one of the clutches by some of the performance vendors...

Just my thoughts.....
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
2006_5.9
I have a ceramic Valair DD rated at 850hp in my truck, and I tow just fine with it. Anything from a 3 horse, car hauler, to a 5th wheel. You just have to know how to drive it ;) OP I think a good option for you would be the DD organic towing clutch with the spring hubs. Shouldn't be grabby and will still be a solid clutch for towing. Better yet give either Valair or Southbend a call. Explain to them what you use your truck for, and any modifications made. Both companies have a great reputation and are willing to answer any questions you may have. They will steer you in the right direction. :thumbsup:
Reply
Save
Like
Valair1
If you tow and drive aggressive go for the ceramic, we have plenty of customers who do. Its not that we don't recommend the ceramic dual for towing, we recommend it when aggressive driving is combined with towing.
Reply
Save
Like
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Cummins Diesel Forum
A forum community dedicated to all things Cummins Diesel! Originally founded for owners and enthusiasts of Cummins powered Dodge pickups, the Cummins Forum has expanded to include ALL Cummins Engine applications! Come join the discussion about reviews, drivetrain swaps, turbos, modifications, classifieds, builds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
03-07 Performance Parts Discussion 03-07 Powertrain 2013-2018 General Discussion 98.5-02 Powertrain 98.5-02 Performance Parts Discussion
Top