Dude you are killing me. We won't convince each other
To answer your questions
1 - The Cummins statement is at the extremes. Water kills human beings if you drink too much. So will additives if you overuse, that's sort of obvious. That Cummins statement said NOTHING specific about what to do, just a get out of jail free card for them. A 50% mix of Toluene would hurt, but would a .001% or .05%, that warning says nothing.
who said a mix of 50% toluene, now your putting words in my mouth...
you can take any thing to extremes just like you are now...
2 - As far as your use, do you know the cetane of your fuel? Do you know the actual blend? The pumps all say 40 in Nebraska, even in winter, so your own post said 45 in the winter, do you test it? Hell each brand uses a different mix in the winter, some additives, some #1, no two pumps are the same but they all say 40, which is too low per Cummins standards. I don't know what the real rating is in the pump, summer, winter, or when they first switch to winter fuel and it's 1/2 and 1/2, etc...but the colder it gets the noisier the engines are and a little spike does well.
yes, I do know the blend rates and the use of the OTR additive that the station I frequent uses, you can find it out to, just ask them.
Who tests it. The Dept of weights and measures bureau
Fuel Quality The Weights and Meaures Program is statutorily charged with assuring that petroleum products such as gasoline and diesel fuel, offered or exposed for sale in the State of Montana , meet the nationally recognized American Society of Testing Materials (ASTM) standards. For gasoline, the standard is D-4814 and for diesel, D-975. Testing for compliance to these standards is done by periodically sampling fuel products and sending them to an independent laboratory for analysis.
3 - The gelling happens. Winter fuel blend gels too, just at a lower temp. As I said earlier, every station does it a little different, some #1, some additive, but it always says 40
Cetane has nothing to do with gelling or more common freze ups from water.
try to stay on topic
4- Finally, as far as the different standard, God bless the USA, been fighting for it for 20 years. The question wasn't only if it was rated the same, because the definitions of cetane index and cetane number are different on some sites, same on the others and EU has an index of 46 and number of 51. So when you say they measure it the same just not USA, you got proof it's the same method? They have two numbers with one close to ours and one very different. That's why I asked, I can't find a definitive answer, and if your argument of too high of cetane is a problem, then our stuff shouldn't run well there or it would require tuning and European spec imports shouldn't run well here.
.Diesel cetane According to the European diesel standard EN-590, diesel in the European Union must have a cetane number no lower than 51 and a cetane index no lower than 46
.
why are you so concerned with EU few of us will ever go there,
so lets keep it to what we will be dealing with, regardless if someone served or not.
and yes I stand by my statement that to much cetaene is not a good thing.. as the professionals have all ready determined for us
BTW, here is the Cummins report post referenced above. It says 42 BTW, and my local pump says 40
ya got to belive what the pump sayes
I fulled up at a pump that still didn't have a ulds sticker on it.
so if i go by you, i didn't get ulsd then?
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/t...mmins-engines-service-bulletin-3379001-a.html
So I agree, Cummins is not TELLING you to use it, but they aren't saying no either, it's on you to make the call
So my question is, with everything labelled at 40, and none of us testing, how do
you know you are at 45 when it gets cold?
Murphy Oil witch has a refinery just across the bay in superior WI, who supplya all of the local stations, asking what their cetane rating is. Here is their response:
"it varies based on product, and time of year, but normally is around the 45 to 50 Cetane range"
the references from which the cetane numbers were taken.
The cetane number test procedure is complex and inherently involves considerable
uncertainty so some of the variation can be attri
buted to experimental error. ASTM Test method D 613 states that for fuels with cetane numbers in the range of 44 to 56, the repeatability should be within 0.7 to 0.9 cetane number units (American Society for Testing and Materials, 1988). The
repeatability is the difference between two measurements conducted by the same operator with the
same apparatus, under the same test conditions, and using the same test material. ASTM says these
limits should be exceeded by no more than 1 test in 20. However, the reproducibility limits, defined
as the difference between two measurements conducted by two different operators, using different
The cetane number test procedure is complex and inherently involves considerable
uncertainty so some of the variation can be attributed to experimental error. ASTM Test method D
613 states that for fuels with cetane numbers in the range of 44 to 56,
MEASUREMENT OF CETANE NUMBER: IQT
The IOT instrument is now the most common instrument in use for measuring the cetane number. The replacement of cetane engines with these instruments has greatly improved the blending process in refineries by enabling more data to be generated on component streams and batches of fuel.
The IQT correlates with the cetane number result from a cetane engine and the result is expressed as a ‘Derived’ Cetane Number (dCN). The repeatability and reproducibility have been estimated at 0.76 and 3.2 respectively at 51 cetane number, the specification minimum for most European diesel. The reproducibility statistic indicates 95% of tests on a sample by different laboratories, will fall within a band of 3.2 cetane numbers.
Measurement Accuracy is usually taken in to account by targeting a cetane number above the specification. Generally, a refinery is focused and practiced in cetane blending to the specification and more skilled than many laboratories in operating the test equipment.
The process accuracy in blending to a target can be estimated from the standard deviation of the batch release results and for a refinery in good control, this can be as low as 0.5 units dCN. This compares favorably to the IQT quoted method standard deviation (σ) of 1.14 (reproducibility of 3.2 divided by 2.8).
A refinery can increase the blending target to increase the certainty a referee laboratory will return a result on-grade or alternatively blend to a tighter target and expect a proportion of the blends to be re-tested as below specification. The download link above, opens an Excel routine to assist with the calculation of the optimum target.
However, the reproducibility limits, defined
as the difference between two measurements conducted by two different operators, using different apparatus, but the same test material, are between 2.5 and 3.3.
the #2 and #1 blend debate, because some say #1 will lower the rating,
The planned blend formulation needs to be realistic for the base cetane number and the dosage of cetane improver calculated to move the result from the base to the fuel specification. Blender control systems can correct minor errors but need to make a ‘good start’ to be reliable. The component cetane will vary significantly for different feed sources and the formulation of blends to a cetane target requires reliable blending indices and rules. The predicted blend cetane index (CI) is often used for the base cetane. The 2 and 4 variable Cetane Indices are correlations based on the density and distillation of the blend. These assume an even character across the distillation range but can be modified to be more accurate for specific blends types. Sampling components and checking the way they blend for cetane can help to establish blending rules. The Excel download above gives an example of such a study.
Laboratory Projects can be completed to support the refinery blending process and enhance the overall accuracy of targeting the cetane specification.
Development of blend models for the planning process.
Blender control systems effective in adjusting for cetane.
Reliable IQT calibration and measurement accuracy.
Production Planning
The planned blend formulation needs to be realistic for the base cetane number and the dosage of cetane improver calculated to move the result from the base to the fuel specification. Blender control systems can correct minor errors but need to make a ‘good start’ to be reliable. The component cetane will vary significantly for different feed sources and the formulation of blends to a cetane target requires reliable blending indices and rules. The predicted blend cetane index (CI) is often used for the base cetane. The 2 and 4 variable Cetane Indices are correlations based on the density and distillation of the blend. These assume an even character across the distillation range but can be modified to be more accurate for specific blends types. Sampling components and checking the way they blend for cetane can help to establish blending rules. The Excel download above gives an example of such a study.
On-Line Controller & Cetane Improver Dosing
Advanced blenders are equipped with fast loop sampling and line analysers. These measure diesel properties as blends are being produced and control the blender in real time, optimising the blend formulation and additive dosages. Direct measurement of the cetane number is not usual, but spectroscopic methods such as N
IR are available, requiring a continuous calibration support to maintain accuracy. Density and distillation points are usually available to follow the cetane index.
it's even ok to splash blend
Splash Blending’ to a batch tank may allow time for rundown and tank analysis in the laboratory to help set additive dosages..
The cetane number test procedure is complex and inherently involves considerable
uncertainty so some of the variation can be attributed to experimental error. ASTM Test method D
613 states that for fuels with cetane numbers in the range of 44 to 56, the repeatability should be within 0.7 to 0.9 cetane number units (American Society for Testing and Materials, 1988). The repeatability is the difference between two measurements conducted by the same operator with the same apparatus, under the same test conditions, and using the same test material. ASTM says these limits should be exceeded by no more than 1 test in 20. However, the reproducibility limits, defined as the difference between two measurements conduc
ted by two different operators, using different
but my point wasn't about low levels, it was that to much(high levels) is not beneficial, and it can be a determent.
