[wjbell]

I'm still trying to figure what box to get, either the power puck or the edge ez. I was reading up on the puck and it increases the injection pressure. Some people complained that injectors got louder and it may have even damaged some injectors. My questions are, can the puck damage my stock injectors? Does the EZ modify injection pressure also? Is the power puck risky to use and will it make injectors louder than normal? Thanks.

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

In my opinion, most boxes are inherantly flawed in that instead of reprogramming the PCM with new values, they simply fool the pcm into advancing the timing and raising the pressure by telling the PCM a lie. This seems like it could be troublesome to me. I don't like the idea of fooling it for the potential that the programmer could possibly mask a problem that the PCM would otherwise throw a MIL for and get your attention. If you don't know about a problem, you can't fix it and this could lead to more problems. But I don't know everything so I can't speak for either of those boxes. I'll let you do your homework and decide for yourself which product to get.

 

[DieselRiot]

I have the power puck for about a year now and its great.

not too much power to to destroy the vp or slip the tranny but just the perfect ammount.

plus its priced very well

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

I was thinking in terms of hurting injectors as he was asking. If you blow the tip out of one, you've got metal shards in the cylinder which can possibly destroy or weld themselves to pistons, rings, cylinder walls or valves. the corresponding stream of fuel can cut a valve to pieces or burn a hole in a piston. All of the preceeding would require the re-build or replacament of the engine.

 

[farmboysdiesel]

I'm still trying to figure what box to get, either the power puck or the edge ez. I was reading up on the puck and it increases the injection pressure. Some people complained that injectors got louder and it may have even damaged some injectors. My questions are, can the puck damage my stock injectors? Does the EZ modify injection pressure also? Is the power puck risky to use and will it make injectors louder than normal? Thanks.

You're reading the info for the CR trucks not the VP equipped trucks. The EZ and the puck only increase injection timing on the VP trucks. You don't hurt a thing. For the money, I'd invest in a Quad Adrenaline and really turn the power up. :thumbsup

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

You're reading the info for the CR trucks not the VP equipped trucks. The EZ and the puck only increase injection timing on the VP trucks. You don't hurt a thing. For the money, I'd invest in a Quad Adrenaline and really turn the power up. :thumbsup

I would like to know what kind of programming they use. Do they (the programmers mentioned in this thread)reprogram with a new set of values or do they just fool the PCM into thinking different conditions exist (I.E. Tell the PCM there's not enough fuel, add more fuel and timing)

 

[Blue2003]

You're reading the info for the CR trucks not the VP equipped trucks. The EZ and the puck only increase injection timing on the VP trucks. You don't hurt a thing. For the money, I'd invest in a Quad Adrenaline and really turn the power up. :thumbsup

:w:jee....i wonder who can hook him up with one of them!:w:

 

[BigBlue]

The only people that actually reprogram the ECM is smarty and all your gonna get out of that is 65hp at best. At least on a VP truck. Lying to the ECM isn't a problem and hasn't been for years. If the ECM/PCM sees something wrong it still pops a code. All that these boxes are doing are fooling the ecm and taking control of the injection pump brains. I don't see a problem with it and haven't for the last 6 years.

 

[Dad]

There is one tangible difference between a box and a programmer. The programmers, in addition to adjusting fuel and timing curves, also have code readers built in and can adjust your speedo for tire size. SMARTY, SuperChips and HyperTech make handheld programmers for the VP trucks. Maybe others, those are the three I know of.

Some of the boxes, like the Juice, Quad and others, require that you "tap the pump wire" which *some* people find objectionable. It can void your pump warranty if you have any remaining, and it has been known on older VP's (98 and 99) to seize the rotor.

You also need to begin with the end in mind. If you intend to cross the 500HP barrier, you are most likely going to have to stack a programmer and a fueling box. If that is your intention, you might want to start with a SMARTY. If you only want a little kick in the shorts for towing (40-60HP) then a Puck or EZ are probably the best choices.

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

I'm a little wary of it myself. I think I'd rather have a better idea of what's going on inside the programmer's brain before actually investing in them. I'd also like to know, if they're so reliable, why does the factory void warranties over them? I'd feel a lot better if there was a MOPAR Performance setup that wouldn't void the warranty.

What I haven't seen is anyone running a Stand-Alone management system like AEM or MegaSuirt on these. the only one I've heard of is the version of the OttoMind that runs the Banks Sidewinder S-10 Type-d based on a Bosch pcm.

As for everyone fooling the PCM, the OttoMind for the 7.3L PowerStrokes (Yes, I brought them up, sorry) is an EPROM chip that plugs into the PCM itself and has a new set of value for injector advancement. Now the newer stuff, I'm not sure about. I'd like to find something simiar to this or try to run an EMS. I think it would be badass to have an EMS. I've seen people using a PCM chip in gas but the OttoMind is the only one I know of like that for ANY diesel.

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

There is one tangible difference between a box and a programmer. The programmers, in addition to adjusting fuel and timing curves, also have code readers built in and can adjust your speedo for tire size. SMARTY, SuperChips and HyperTech make handheld programmers for the VP trucks. Maybe others, those are the three I know of.

Some of the boxes, like the Juice, Quad and others, require that you "tap the pump wire" which *some* people find objectionable. It can void your pump warranty if you have any remaining, and it has been known on older VP's (98 and 99) to seize the rotor.

You also need to begin with the end in mind. If you intend to cross the 500HP barrier, you are most likely going to have to stack a programmer and a fueling box. If that is your intention, you might want to start with a SMARTY. If you only want a little kick in the shorts for towing (40-60HP) then a Puck or EZ are probably the best choices.

What about the downloaders for products like the Banks Six Gun/ PDA or the Edge one (I forget what it's called). I know about products like PPE and SCT and the like. Would those be a little more like a reflash than just interrupting the signal and replacing it with one that is a little less in value (telling it that there's less fuel than there really is so it will ad fuel)?

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

You know, it occurs to me that I seem to have hijacked this thread and so I have to appologize for that.

 

[BigBlue]

I wouldn't call it hijacking since we are still discussing how boxes work.

Edge is a box that fools the ecm along with the banks. Hypertech, Superchips, and Smarty are the only one's that actually reprogram the ECM. Some guys have had issues with reprogramming causing weird glitches or fried ecm's (rare but has happened).

Might I ask why you don't like boxes lying to the ECM? Not trying to start something, just curious.

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

I can't really explain it. I just like doing things a certain way and it would seem to me that the best way would be to do the research to reflash the PCM properly. This is done all the time on gas engines and I have seen it take a full second-and-a-half of the E.Ts my friends V6 F-150 was putting down at the track. He was running 16.6 and with an SCT handheld scanner/flasher, he got down to 15.1s on a good day and 15.3s and 15.4s consistently.

I know that reflashing can be done effectively, properly and reliably. If I'm correct, then just about any handheld tuner that can correct speedo for tire size and axle ratios is actually re-flashing the PCM as this is how the other techs and I do a Pinion Factor Reset. All we're doing is reflashing the EEPROM with new values. If this can be done properly and reliably for gas, why not diesel. I guess the biggest reason I'm against fooling it isn't because it's harmful. I just think it can be done a better way.

Now the thing I do love about the boxes is how easy it is to change the tune. Just a turn of a knob or a push of a button. But I do think the ultimate would be a stand-alone Engine Management system.

 

[BigBlue]

I can go for that. One thing your gonna have to realize on these trucks is that these ECM's are so locked up that it's really hard to retune them. Not to mention that on a VP truck, since the VP has it's own brain, you have to take control of that brain and tell it what to do. What a box is on these trucks is a new brain for the VP pump and it just tells the ecm that boost and fueling are all correct (very broad definition). The duramax's have EFI live for them that allows you to actually custom program the ECM. People have been working on the cummins software but it's locked up very tight and is very hard to access. But that really only applies to the CR trucks. The VP trucks just don't have the functions and controls that the CR's do. That's why the CR's can get so much more out of a programmer than the VP trucks can. The VP trucks you have to take control of the computer inside the VP to make it make power. That's where wire tap boxes come in to play.

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

You Might look into PPE. I beleive that it stands for "Pacific Performance Engineering". An allude to them being a west coast based business. There was an article in Diesel Power magazine not too long ago where they used the PPE Programmer/Scanner on an LMM Duramax and got it to run 13.6....stock......with just the programmer. And since it uploads a tune to the PCM, it's not fooling it, it's reprogramming it with different values. Now they did have excessive EGTs with the balls-out tune and it wasn't as fast when they turned it down but the technology is still there.

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

I can go for that. One thing your gonna have to realize on these trucks is that these ECM's are so locked up that it's really hard to retune them. Not to mention that on a VP truck, since the VP has it's own brain, you have to take control of that brain and tell it what to do. What a box is on these trucks is a new brain for the VP pump and it just tells the ecm that boost and fueling are all correct (very broad definition). The duramax's have EFI live for them that allows you to actually custom program the ECM. People have been working on the cummins software but it's locked up very tight and is very hard to access. But that really only applies to the CR trucks. The VP trucks just don't have the functions and controls that the CR's do. That's why the CR's can get so much more out of a programmer than the VP trucks can. The VP trucks you have to take control of the computer inside the VP to make it make power. That's where wire tap boxes come in to play.

Well then why not a StaLo PMS (Pump Management System) that can be custon tuned on a dyno to get proper A/F ratios and lo EGTs and still be safer for the pump then the aforementioned rotor seizing?

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

Another thought I just had and I know someone is probably working on this right now - Why not one EMS to manage both Engine and Pump functions? And a StaLo won't have the issues of the software being locked up because it will run on it's own. As for the other modules, all the StaLo would have to do is relay the signal in a manner that the other modules that needed it could read. it wouldn't even have to lie, just relay the message.

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

I hope I'm not coming across as stubborn or pig-headed. I'm still learning. I'm pretty proficient with gas but all i know about diesel is a good definition of the basics.

 

[dieseltracks]

I'm still trying to figure what box to get, either the power puck or the edge ez. I was reading up on the puck and it increases the injection pressure. Some people complained that injectors got louder and it may have even damaged some injectors. My questions are, can the puck damage my stock injectors? Does the EZ modify injection pressure also? Is the power puck risky to use and will it make injectors louder than normal? Thanks.

Don't forget about the XZT+.
You can choose how you want the power to come on with the factory tunes or aggressive tunes (max HP is the same though), and it has TONS of features that can be downloaded into it via USB. Just my .02 :thumbsup
I tried the EZ on my truck, wasn't really that impressive. I've never tried the Puck.