[WhistlinDixie]

I got my truck running just about perfect stock and am looking at some mild tuning. The price of a plate seems to be all over the map. Has anyone used the plates from off ebay sold by vertex suspension from Cali? They are going for $60 now and some others are over $200. I don't want to spend too much but I don't want a piece of junk either. Advice?

I could also use some input on exactly what to do. After reading the tech material it looks like I need a #10 plate. I occasionally tow heavy- like a 32ft. trailer with a 4020 Deere or hay or a 416 Cat. How far can I push the stock turbo and injectors without having an egt problem with those loads?

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[TheNeckasaurus]

First and foremost take care of your transmission. You'll need a higher rated HP clutch if you want to start putting some pep in its step. The ebay plates are fine, or you can look up the profile you want and grind your stock to a #10 yourself.

 

[dauntless89]

My advice (opinion)? Fuel plates are unnecessary unless you're running WOT constantly and can't watch the pyro.

My fueling is set up like this:

AFC mods (washer swap, milled .120" off the AFC lever barrel, lowered the lever, stretched stock spring)
Preboost is about 4 turns in. Boost fueling starts at 7-8 psi and hits full travel at ~28 psi. You have to set up driving conditions to feel the turbo lag, and sometimes I have to convince myself I even felt it. I only get smoke out the side dump if I jab the pedal to the floor. A quick roll into the throttle won't even get black smoke. I set my mirror up to see what was actually coming out the dump, not just looking in the rearview.
I replaced the AFC reference line with 1/4" air brake hose and fittings. I noticed a faster boost fueling response.
Fuel plate: gone. Not putting one back in unless I have EGT issues with my 10k flatbed.
The wastegate is also adjusted to ~28 psi. No boost elbow, controller, or fooler of any kind. I just adjusted the actuator rod itself. I noticed the small leak from the elbow affecting my lighting-fast spool, especially with the tiny AFC reference line and the wastegate actuator downstream from it. Transient boost is also stronger, since there's more spring tension holding the wastegate shut at lower pressures. You don't get the drive pressure starting to crack it open prematurely.
3k GSK. You'll get more bang for your buck from your other fueling mods with a GSK.

I have a stock WH1C turbo in good shape, with stock (presumably original) injectors, DVs, etc on a 160 pump. I drilled extra holes in the air box and the filter minder hasn't moved with a used (but good) paper filter. My exhaust is the factory stuff with the muffler/cat cut out, then I took the rest of the pipe, cut it up, and welded it back together in a side-dump configuration. No muffler or anything. I don't have any cab drone and inside the cab the exhaust doesn't overcome general road noise. No problem carrying on a conversation.

It felt like everything nearly doubled my power, so had a buddy who ran his Cummins on a dyno drive my truck, and his guess (again, guess) at power was 300-ish HP with 700-ish TQ. I want to run it on next dyno day in the area to see what the real-life numbers are.

I have yet to break 1000 degrees on an empty truck. I haven't had an opportunity to tow anything with it yet though.

But definitely get a clutch, even if you're going to keep stock power while towing loads like that. You don't want to find out the inconvenient way your current one isn't up to the task.

 

[WhistlinDixie]

What year truck do you have? Didn't the WH1 go on the 1st gen trucks? I am curious what a no plate setup would do with heavy loads. When you pull with it let us know.

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[WhistlinDixie]

First and foremost take care of your transmission. You'll need a higher rated HP clutch if you want to start putting some pep in its step. The ebay plates are fine, or you can look up the profile you want and grind your stock to a #10 yourself.

I had thought of that. The PO said the clutch had less than 1000mi on it when I got it. I have no reason to doubt it, but it is a stock replacement. I reckon I will run it until it starts to slip.

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[dauntless89]

What year truck do you have? Didn't the WH1 go on the 1st gen trucks? I am curious what a no plate setup would do with heavy loads. When you pull with it let us know.

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The '95 in my sig. I was also surprised to find it was a WH1C. After some research I learned they are sometimes found on '94s and less frequently on '95s. Guess Holset or Cummins had some stragglers they were looking to unload, or something. :confused013:

I am also interested to see what happens when I pull. I'm expecting to have to foot-govern it to keep my EGTs in check. "How bad" is the variable... If I can't get up a slight incline on cruise control without flirting with 1200*, I'll put one back in. I've heard lots of other people say its not a big deal though so I dunno. We'll have to see. Empty, I run 550* or so and 3-5 psi on level ground at 65mph, and just barely touch 800* at 12-13 psi on the steepest hill on my commute at the same speed.

 

[WhistlinDixie]

You also mentioned a gsk. What will that do at engine speed less than its rating? I don't plan on going over 3000 let alone 4000. Does it also improve fueling response below the cut off point?

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[dauntless89]

You also mentioned a gsk. What will that do at engine speed less than its rating? I don't plan on going over 3000 let alone 4000. Does it also improve fueling response below the cut off point?

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Yes. The stock springs start defueling around 2200 and limits revs to 2700 if I remember correctly. The 3k GSK starts defueling around 2800 rpm and allows free revving to 3200. The 4k keeps fuel going longer, not sure on the specs since I don't want to run my truck that hard.

When I put my 3k kit in, I had to drop the idle speed by 75 rpm because even at idle it was giving more fuel.

I did my GSK before any of my AFC or fueling or boost mods, and I noticed a major difference in overall throttle response, especially over 2000 rpm. I don't exceed 2000 very often, but I like knowing it can pull hard all the way to 3000 if I need it to.

 

[TheNeckasaurus]

The 4gsk kit is probably one the most noticable and all around greatest mods for these trucks. That along with AFC mods will make your clutch cry, but you'll have alot of fun doing it. Dont forget exhaust and intake, free up that engine and let it breath.

 

[WhistlinDixie]

Another question: did you just shorten the wastegate rod? I used to have a Buick turbo and that was the trick to get more boost.

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[WhistlinDixie]

I already have a 4" magnaflow that was on it when I got it and a bhaf, also from the PO. No other changes though; I haven't even moved the breakoff screw. Need to update sig but I always post from this mobile app.

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[dauntless89]

The 4k is more responsive and some say it starts to get "touchy" especially if you don't get the nuts tightened right. I wouldn't know personally.

My reasoning for the 3k over the 4k is this: I didn't want to replace the exhaust valve springs, and the 3k won't *allow* your engine to free-rev over 3200 where the 4k will.

One time when I was 19 I was hauling a load in an old Chevy and had a u-joint shear off on a hill, running the engine way past it's redline. I felt it let go but the truck was a pile and I thought the trans was just hunting. I had the music jacked and didn't hear the engine screaming until it was too late, having no tach to see. It amazes me to this day it still ran enough to get home with 4 bent valves.

In my Cummins, I have a tach, and the engine is way louder than my current stereo. Call me paranoid, but I would just prefer the extra insurance against something like that happening again.

The GSK I bought included all the springs I needed for 4k, but by leaving the inner springs out and you get a 3k. I hung on to the 4k springs, so if I want to do the valve springs someday I can change to the 4k with relative ease.

 

[dauntless89]

Another question: did you just shorten the wastegate rod? I used to have a Buick turbo and that was the trick to get more boost.

If your actuator is stock, your process will be a little different than mine, but essentially yes. Shorten the rod for more boost.

My actuator is not factory. It's an "adjustable" replacement that was on it when I got the truck. My "adjustable" actuator is only different from a factory one in that the rod end swivels between where it threads onto the rod and where the wastegate lever connects, allowing me to simply reach around the turbo, loosen the lock nut, and tighten the rod end to make the adjustment. I learned this after removing it completely and examining it. The factory ones are still adjustable, but do not swivel at the rod end, meaning you have to disconnect one half of the actuator from it's attachment point.

I'd get under the truck and look at the actuator from beneath so you can see where things are. I found it easiest to reach around the turbo from the top to mess with it, but it will be a pain no matter how you do it. If it has one, loosen the locknut on the actuator shaft.

Then, you'll need to either disconnect the actuator arm at the wastegate lever, OR unbolt the actuator can from the mount. I'll give directions for each method:

1) Actuator Arm Removal Method:

The arm is attached to the lever with an e-clip, and is in a spot where it's a major pain to get on and off without dropping it. A thin flat-blade screwdriver and a magnetic pickup tool are invaluable here. Once the clip is off, the shaft is still held onto the wastegate lever with spring pressure from the actuator. You will need to use regulated shop air or a bike pump or something to put positive air pressure into the can, simulating boost.

Assuming you have a compressor, get a cheap regulator and a gauge, ideally one that reads up to 40 psi. Turn the regulator all the way down, and hook it to the actuator. Turn the pressure up until you see the arm just start to move. The rod should now slide off the wastegate lever, allowing adjustment by turning the rod end.

If you know what pressure your wastegate is currently set to, you can eliminate a lot of the guesswork with turning it up. Say it opens at 17 and you want 30. Slowly increase the pressure until there is no spring pressure holding the lever closed, but also no shaft movement forcing it open. Make a note of where the regulator is at. Now increase the regulator pressure by the 13psi you want to gain, then shorten the shaft until it just slides on the wastegate arm in its closed position without opening the gate. This will only be as exact as your numbers and care when adjusting, but it should get you pretty close to where you want and alleviate lots of headache from repeating the adjustment over and over.

2) Diaphragm Removal Method:

Loosen the two nuts that hold the diaphragm assembly to the mount. You'll need to pull the actuator back until the studs will slip out of the holes. Spring pressure is holding the actuator against the mount, you will need to overcome that. You can use regulated shop air or a bike pump or something to put positive air pressure into the can, simulating boost and countering the spring tension. SLOWLY increase pressure until rod movement stops or you hit ~35 psi. Any more might be more than the actuator can handle, I don't know what it was designed to tolerate. Remove the actuator from it's bracket, and make the adjustment by turning the entire actuator against the still attached wastegate lever, clockwise to increase pressure. If the slack earned from pressurizing the actuator isn't enough to allow you to remove it from it's mount, you'll have to do it the other way.

If it has a locknut, tighten it and road test.

I think the reason people prefer boost elbows is that they don't have to go through this tedious and potentially frustrating process. They operate by creating an adjustable boost leak in the actuator's reference line that effectively tricks the actuator into opening later. They are either installed on the turbo or on the AFC, depending on your truck, and are much easier to adjust. However, having tried two different types of these boost controllers, it is my personal opinion that adjusting the actuator itself gives the best results.

 

[Mojave Magic]

Definitely keep a plate if you tow. A properly positioned plate simply keeps the fuel where you would try to aim with your foot to control egt. There's enough to keep an eye on towing with being glued to the gauge.

Mine with a #10 plate in stock position with modded afc will still get up near 12-1300 if you drop rpm too low on a hill. Running empty is a completely different experience and it's tough to exceed 900 no matter what you do. Towing with no plate would need perfect tuning on the afc and lots of attention. I really can't see any benefit to this. There's plenty of power to be made with a plate, so why create extra headaches?

 

[alaska12v]

I v got a #10 fuel plate on my truck from them it looks like a good product and I received it fast and I live in Alaska where stuff takes forever to receive. Can't beat the price

 

[4x4flatbed]

I havent ran a plate in over 3 years, i tow alot also. your fuel plate controls WOT and i dont think i have ever felt the need to put it to the floor with a trailer, plenty of power to pull most anything up any hill running off the afc settings, not the plate