[rckbndr]

Hi ive searched for an answer and came close but i wasnt satisfied with the answers i got so Im starting a new thread.

Last week i was out gathering firewood in the forest, when i jumped in my truck to move to the next spot a few feet away, it cranked over but no start. So after a few trys i got to thinking what the problem may be, usually itll start in one crank rightaway. Initially i was thinking FSS, eventhough its only a couple years old, ive been experiencing problems with it shutting off and working intermittantly. With no tools I just tapped on it with the key on hopeing that if it where stuck shut, the blows would help it release...no go.
So Air leak and clogged fuel fiter crossed my mind. I replaced the fuel filter with a new spare i carry with me, and at the same time I inspected the fuel line routing and looked for abnormalities. I then proceeded to prime the pump (LP piston pump) to fill the new filter. When I crancked it over I got a few sputters but it then died and just cranks after that. So I primed more like 30-40 pumps each time trying to start it after a revolution of pumps, same results, sputtering...then finally after a few of those trys i got it going!!! but when I went to throtle it up it died. Frustrated, in the middle of nowhere, getting dark and cold, I crawled under my truck tracing down the fuel line (plastic to the tank) It had all the signs of an air leak so thats what I was thinking.
I found part of the fuel line was rubbing on the frame the area was already covered with brake fluid from a leaking master cylinder, and diesel form the filter swap, so I cleaned it off as best I could and primed and cranked then looked again to see if i saw fuel on the line. No fuel the rubbing area didnt seem to have a pinhole just a slight rubbing, so I tapped the line with electrical tape. and primed the pump again, then boom it fired right up and continued to run normally...So I thought I need to replace the fuel line

The next day was dedicated to fixing my truck, now to back up a few months, my fuel pin o-ring is leaking and has been, and i recently started seeing wet spots at the throttle lever shaft. I purchased the bosch gaskit kit and it has been wainting to be instaled.
Now, I have the proper fuel line (upgraded to 3/8) push lock fittings, and Draw straw.
I first started by taking the tape off the fuel line to get a better look at it in the light, and thereis definatly no hole or leaking in that area, or any area on the fuel line
And on a side note i heard a faint hissing as I was primimg the pump the day before on the trail, It sounded like it came from the fuel pump fuel filter area but was never able to confirm where.
I took apart the AFC housing and replaced both the fuel pin o-ring and the throttle shaft o-ring, necessary gaskits.
After I bolted it all together it was dark, and wasnt able to drop the tank to do the fuel lines.
So i just started it up and everything was fine

My truck is a daily driver and I just simply ran out of time to dive into replacing the fuel lines. So I just kept driving the truck.
Its been more than a week and Ive been on some trips down and back to town with no more air leak/starting issues. Im still gonna replace the fuel line and draw straw, but it seems that wasnt the problem.

(question)
Is it possible that the air leak was from the AFC leaks?? doesnt seem likely to me and I just hate not being sure if the issue is fixed or not by not knowing the exact cause...
Thanks for reading my long story....:thumbsup:

 

[9297oldram]

Here is the quick easy way to check for air in the system. After your truck has sat for a few hours and before you try to start it open the bleeder and manually pump the Lp and watch to see if air bubbles or all fuel come out first. If air bubbles then your sucking air between the Lp and pickup on your fuel tank module.

One way to check your FSS is with the key on unplug it and plug it back in, you should hear a click. But if you really want to rule out the FSS as a problem gut it and use the manual shut off on the side of the IP.

Have you checked your fuel pressure the stock LP puts out 3-5 PSI, and I believe you said it has a LP piston pump so as long as it's over 5 PSI it should start.

If your IP was leaking bad enough it could have been your starting problem.

 

[Rolling_Coal]

Not meaning to jack this thread but I wanted to ask a question while your on this subject.
I dropped my tank after truck dies when fuel hand reached "E", it has done this before and I am not sure why and it is very hard to get the truck back started. I had to reposition the fuel sending unit because I think the float was rubbing up against the tank causing the fuel hand not to work. I emptied the Fuel from inside the unit and I installed it back in the tank without putting fuel back into the unit. The truck will not prime up none now with bleeder screw cracked and me pumping on the lift pump.. with barely any bubbles at all.) I am racking my brain on how to get my truck to start but I have no clue what to do?? Did I mess up by not putting any fuel back into the sending unit when I put it back in the tank??
I thought about taking the fuel return line off and somehow pumping fuel into the unit without having to drop my tank again because it has 10 more gallons of fuel in it making it heavier. Have thought about also hiring a diesel mechanic ($60hr) to find out why it will not start but would be cheaper to troubleshoot my issues on here with all these professionals around.

 

[9297oldram]

Not meaning to jack this thread but I wanted to ask a question while your on this subject.
I dropped my tank after truck dies when fuel hand reached "E", it has done this before and I am not sure why and it is very hard to get the truck back started. I had to reposition the fuel sending unit because I think the float was rubbing up against the tank causing the fuel hand not to work. I emptied the Fuel from inside the unit and I installed it back in the tank without putting fuel back into the unit. The truck will not prime up none now with bleeder screw cracked and me pumping on the lift pump.. with barely any bubbles at all.) I am racking my brain on how to get my truck to start but I have no clue what to do?? Did I mess up by not putting any fuel back into the sending unit when I put it back in the tank??
I thought about taking the fuel return line off and somehow pumping fuel into the unit without having to drop my tank again because it has 10 more gallons of fuel in it making it heavier. Have thought about also hiring a diesel mechanic ($60hr) to find out why it will not start but would be cheaper to troubleshoot my issues on here with all these professionals around.

Is the fuel tank module sitting on the bottom of the tank? Maybe your LP is bad does it have much resistance? Did you check the screen on the bottom of the fuel tank module to see if it was clean?

 

[rollin'coal08]

Im not sure if this will help but on my 97 i had the exact same problems and of course they happend in winter!! did the same thing you did. checked everything, but i removed the fuel preheater, i heard they can suck air from helpful people on this site. i would prime and prime and it would go. i dont know if VE trucks have that pre heater but i removed it and it hasnt messed up since. just my 2 cents!

 

[9297oldram]

Im not sure if this will help but on my 97 i had the exact same problems and of course they happend in winter!! did the same thing you did. checked everything, but i removed the fuel preheater, i heard they can suck air from helpful people on this site. i would prime and prime and it would go. i dont know if VE trucks have that pre heater but i removed it and it hasnt messed up since. just my 2 cents!

On 1st Gen's the heater sits on top of the filter.

 

[rckbndr]

thanks for the replies,
ive tried the opening the bled screw before and yes i saw bubbles, but i will do that again and see what i get thanks

 

[Rolling_Coal]

Is the fuel tank module sitting on the bottom of the tank? Maybe your LP is bad does it have much resistance? Did you check the screen on the bottom of the fuel tank module to see if it was clean?

Yes the sending unit is sitting on the bottom with the screen on bottom of the tank, (its spring loaded). This is the sending unit in the tank: PartsTrain.com - Hard to Find Auto Parts and Truck Parts - we spliced the wire to remove the old module to allow for this new one to work on the 90 wiring harness because I paid $150 and I did not want it to go to waste. The LP has resistance for the first 10-20 pumps but from there on it gets less and less and i crank the truck to put the lever at a different position on the crank to get my resistance back. If I remember correctly I did check the screen and it looked fine. The truck has ran fine but everytime the fuel hand gets to E the truck will shut itself down on its own and I have no idea why unless its a safety mechanism. :confused013:

Once the truck shuts itself off it is a major pain to get it running again. Last time we had to crank, and crank, and crank, etc, the truck and the mechanic put gas on a rag and laid it on the filter and it did not work then he poured straight 110 octane race fuel in the filter and got it running. A friend told me that if I use gas again there is a chance the gas will blow a piston in my motor and I do not want that to happen.. I have no idea what to do I guess I have just bought a money pit because I have not been able to drive it hardly any since and ive had it for over 2 years..

 

[9297oldram]

That module says it has a electric fuel pump, these trucks don't use a intank pump. Get a jug of diesel and run a line from the LP to the jug bleed the air out of the line and see what happens.

Is this mechanic a diesel mechanic? Why is he using gasoline? Is he trying to blow up your truck when the gridheater catches the gasoline on fire before it gets into the engine.

 

[Rolling_Coal]

That module says it has a electric fuel pump, these trucks don't use a intank pump. Get a jug of diesel and run a line from the LP to the jug bleed the air out of the line and see what happens.

Is this mechanic a diesel mechanic? Why is he using gasoline? Is he trying to blow up your truck when the gridheater catches the gasoline on fire before it gets into the engine.

My 91.5 had the somewhat same pump in the tank and like mentioned in the Sig. We swapped everything over to a 90 running gear but the harness because the one from the 91.5 was faulty. So we spliced the plug from the 91.5 to the 90. When the sending unit mentioned above was NEW still in the 91.5 body I never had this issue and the truck would always run fine even when the hand would sit on E. I have the original 90 model module for the fuel tank that I guess I may have to splice the original plug back onto the wire and drop the tank again to install the 90 model module.

Where do I hook the line to on the LP? So basically doing the jug trick will draw all of the air out of which line?

The mechanic who swapped the motor and got it running last with the gas was no diesel mechanic... The diesel mechanic mentioned above is however and he drives a 93 W250 so he knows first gens.

 

[9297oldram]

My 91.5 had the somewhat same pump in the tank and like mentioned in the Sig. We swapped everything over to a 90 running gear but the harness because the one from the 91.5 was faulty. So we spliced the plug from the 91.5 to the 90. When the sending unit mentioned above was NEW still in the 91.5 body I never had this issue and the truck would always run fine even when the hand would sit on E. I have the original 90 model module for the fuel tank that I guess I may have to splice the original plug back onto the wire and drop the tank again to install the 90 model module.

Where do I hook the line to on the LP? So basically doing the jug trick will draw all of the air out of which line?

The mechanic who swapped the motor and got it running last with the gas was no diesel mechanic... The diesel mechanic mentioned above is however and he drives a 93 W250 so he knows first gens.

Your going to unhook the main fuel line from the tank at the LP, and the purpose of doing this to find out if there is a problem between the tank and LP. So basically your just going to run it out of a jug, if your going to run it long your going to need at least a 5 gal. jug. Your return fuel line from the engine is going to empty the jug faster than the engine burning it. After you bleed the line from the jug and if it starts and runs good your problem is somewhere it's disconnected.

 

[Rolling_Coal]

Is it 3/8" fuel line I need to buy? Thanks

 

[9297oldram]

3/8" is the supply and 5/16" is the return size. So you will want 3/8" some say if your replacing your fuel line that you should get Diesel rated fuel line.

 

[Rolling_Coal]

10-4 I will try it out Saturday hopefully.

 

[rckbndr]

Well the truck did it again today, started it up after work and ran fine, then after about 5 mins I shut it off cause I only needed to move it temporarily. Then when back in to start it again about 2 min later and no start just crank. I then primed it with the bleed screw open, no bubbles good stream of diesel. But... I did notice that the primer rubber boot was wet at the bottom where it seals against the fuel pump ( LP piston pump)
That tick me off a little cause its 2 years old ordered from cummins at just over $200 and I'd hate to buy a new one, in fact that's why I bought that instead of going elec pump, I thought less headaches with a manual pump
So i think that's where I'm sucking in air, what do you think?
I have ran bio in it for a while... Is there any way to reseal these things might just be a bad oring or gaskit. I already have the new fuel line so I'm gonna replace that too

 

[Rolling_Coal]

I tried to prime the motor up using the 3/8 fuel line to my 5 gallon tank and it did not work.. It would start priming up with air/fuel coming out then it would just stop flowing with ok pressure on the lift pump.. This is with power from battery going to the FSS to stay open. I want to install one of these: Precision Fuel Pumps E16049 - Electric Fuel Pump | O'Reilly Auto Parts, what do you think about it?

 

[9297oldram]

I didn't see what pressure it put out, the stock fuel pressure is 3-5 and if you go to much over 10 PSI you can blow the front seal out of the IP. Mr Gasket makes a diesel rated 7 PSI pump Mr. Gasket/Electric diesel fuel transfer pump (12D) | | AutoZone.com

If your getting air bubbles all the time when your bleeding the filter than that is your problem.

 

[Rolling_Coal]

I didn't see what pressure it put out, the stock fuel pressure is 3-5 and if you go to much over 10 PSI you can blow the front seal out of the IP. Mr Gasket makes a diesel rated 7 PSI pump Mr. Gasket/Electric diesel fuel transfer pump (12D) | | AutoZone.com

If your getting air bubbles all the time when your bleeding the filter than that is your problem.

Was the 2nd part a reply to the original poster of this thread? If not what were you meaning by "than this is your problem". What problem?

 

[9297oldram]

I tried to prime the motor up using the 3/8 fuel line to my 5 gallon tank and it did not work.. It would start priming up with air/fuel coming out then it would just stop flowing with ok pressure on the lift pump.. This is with power from battery going to the FSS to stay open. I want to install one of these: Precision Fuel Pumps E16049 - Electric Fuel Pump | O'Reilly Auto Parts, what do you think about it?

You said it would start priming up with air/fuel coming out. You need to get all the air out of the line and filter for it to start and run.

 

[Rolling_Coal]

You said it would start priming up with air/fuel coming out. You need to get all the air out of the line and filter for it to start and run.

That is true, where in your opinion would be a good place to install that electric pump at in the line? I was told that I was going to probrably have to flare the existing supply line to acquire an air tight fit. Also is it going to hurt the Ele. pump to run it with no fuel in the line? I am asking this since the sending unit I purchased was for an electrical system to draw fuel out of the tank correct?