[Billy V]

I was thinking...

My truck is now 16 months old, and barely has any miles on it (2582 mi.), so I was getting concerned about the quality of the DEF Fluid and wanted to avert a problem.
- The stuff Will degrade even in San Diego's temperate climate, so a fluid change was in order.

The truck has always been highway driven and no towing, so I knew the def tank would be pretty full. May be 2 gal. down at best was my calculation.

Following the advice of a Vid that Marion posted I used:

- A siphon made from a 4' piece of 3/8" clear vinyl tube attached to a Attwood Priming Bulb with 2' of hose on the discharge side. This is the sweet spot for a siphon size for this job.
- A 3.5 Gal Bucket (fits under the truck perfectly)

- A fresh 2 1/2 gal jug of Supertech DEF (date code 08/07/2018)
the Peak stuff was older because Walmart brand is half the price $7.88

- Locate and Removed the Fill Tube connection only from the DEF Tank. Squeeze the green tabs and wiggle it off just enough to set it aside.

As I opened the DEF Fill Tube a little DEF came out, probably because the tank was at least Half Way Full - keep this in mind if you do this. Yes, I did get pissed on a little but it wasn't a gusher.
I inserted the Siphon and got a quick Prime - all went smooth after that.

- I was able to empty the tank completely, a total of 3 1/2 gal came out.

Just as I thought the DEF was turning a little yellow, which is one of the signs of def going bad.
Wheew - got it out just in time!

Once I reconnected the Fill Tube Connector (just push and it snaps back into place)
I refilled the def tank with the 2 1/2 gal of new def. and checked the DEF Gauge on the dash.
- It sits at the 1/2 full mark exactly - and I intend to only keep 2 1/2 gal. of DEF in the tank at a time from now on, or until truck usage changes.
- Thanks to the guys on this forum for outlining the procedure, and DEF quality awareness.

 

[Minnow101]

Thanks Billy. Learned how to access the the DEF tank with your pictures.

Appreciate the effort to post this!

Anyone getting the DEF error message would be well advised to to this drain and refill procedure before taking the truck in for warranty repair. Then when the service writer tells you, it’s bad DEF, you can tell them there FOS.

 

[brownbear]

It's a nice write-up. I'm curious, though - why did you buy this truck? It's not even getting used.

 

[gsbrockman]

I am curious to know if the DEF was even bad in the first place.

 

[Ltngdrvr]

I am curious to know if the DEF was even bad in the first place.

Well, of course it was bad, DEF only lasts for a few weeks.

That's what I read on the internet.:confused013:

And, he could just start using water...:rof

 

[justutt67]

Wow! You literally never drive your truck!

 

[5001craig]

OP: I'd keep the tank low. Like run it down until it gives you a low DEF warning then add some. I use 2.5 gal jugs but you might want to just add a gallon at that point.

 

[Billy V]

I took the truck for a 100 mile run today after the DEF change. The truck rode great, engine was purring, it likes the new def.
75 - 85 mph driving all the way.

Stopped at the Wrangler in Escondito and had some Ribs. Thumbsup
- Took some home for lunch tomorrow.
They slow cook 12 hours in an oak pit. In business for 53 years - Good Stuff.

 

[Billy V]

I am curious to know if the DEF was even bad in the first place.

I did some research before I siphoned the def, the age and temperature exposure was a big factor Also spoke with a friend at the dealer that suggested getting it out of there because of it's age. He also said if it was cloudy, or yellowing it's turning bad. Don't wait until it becomes a problem.
Truck was built 3/19/17 - same def until now 17 months.
It was beginning to yellow, as seen in the white bucket an indication it was nearing the end.

- This is a small excerpt, from an article explaining what happens when def goes Bad:
"When Good DEF Goes Bad – What Happens
Bad DEF can lead to a host of equipment issues, including:
-Increased consumption by equipment
-Loss of DEF effectiveness
-Issues with equipment, including engine de-rating or shut-down
-Potential damage to components, including DEF dosing pump and diesel particulate filter
-Malfunctions with the machine’s SCR system

In the instance of equipment failure or component damage due to bad DEF, the manufacturer’s warranty even may be void, turning these issues into expensive fixes. So what causes DEF to go bad and how can it be prevented? Here are seven key areas."


"The easiest way to spot bad DEF is to look at it. The fluid is naturally clear so if it appears cloudy or colored, it’s likely contaminated or old. Contaminates, including small particles or larger rocks or dirt will also be easy to see."

OP: I'd keep the tank low. Like run it down until it gives you a low DEF warning then add some. I use 2.5 gal jugs but you might want to just add a gallon at that point.

Yes, I agree and thats the plan going forward.

It's a nice write-up. I'm curious, though - why did you buy this truck? It's not even getting used.

I have a lot of vehicles, everything gets a little exercise - some more than others right now.
-I left for the East Coast 2 months after I bought the truck new, spent some time there.

 

[blueram01]

This is a nice write up but a simple DEF check would probabably be better than throwing away good DEF. I used my OTC spectrometer for the first time yesterday just to see how it works. New jug of Supertech dated 8/8/18 tested perfect at 32.5% which I would expect out of a sealed jug but it seems like there is too much worry about DEF. On the other hand it would be really nice if there was a real drain on the tank so it could be drained easily for checking or checking quality.

 

[Gary Morency]

So what is the life of the stuff I drove my truck off the lot on Aug 9 and the tank was full I got 900 miles on it, is this another worry I,m trying not to use the truck for city driving just trips with the camper.

 

[Minnow101]

This is a nice write up but a simple DEF check would probabably be better than throwing away good DEF. I used my OTC spectrometer for the first time yesterday just to see how it works. New jug of Supertech dated 8/8/18 tested perfect at 32.5% which I would expect out of a sealed jug but it seems like there is too much worry about DEF. On the other hand it would be really nice if there was a real drain on the tank so it could be drained easily for checking or checking quality.

The reason for DEF Paranoia Syndrome from us owners is due to service departments immediate diagnosis of “bad DEF” whenever we bring our trucks in after getting the shutdown in xxx miles message on the evic. The burden immediately gets put on you to prove it wasn’t bad DEF to avoid paying hundreds of dollars for what should be a warranty covered repair. The OP in my opinion was 100% correct in getting 17 month old DEF out.

Eventually, technology will advance that won’t require this voodo juice to control emissions pollution and we’ll look back at this point in time and shake our heads at what nonsense we put up with to drive a diesel truck. Service departments will also be forced with coming up with new ways to scam customers out of warranty repairs which of course is second nature to them anyways.

 

[clotagames]

DEF Paranoia Syndrome

Love the DEF Paranoia Syndrome phrase. I sell farm equipment in northern Illinois and we get temperature swings through the seasons from -20 to 100 degrees. Our late model equipment has used def for 5+ years. Even use the FPT version of the 6.7 in many units. Most of our equipment gets used for a month in the spring and a couple of months in the fall and sits the rest of the year in mostly unheated storage. Have yet to have a bad def issue. Most equipment runs at around 2100 rpm and will burn between 3-6 percent def vs. diesel fuel depending on work load. Have had units sit for 18 months with def in them and no issues. Biggest issue on the farm side of it is having clean def. More issues replacing very small inline filters in the def system but sometimes not a lot of care goes into filling tank with 2" of dirt and debris around the fill neck. Most of our customers use def out of 270 gallon totes or fuel trailers with 100 gallon def tanks. Have advised them to add special inline def filters and that takes care of the dirty def issue. I hope this helps some with the DEF Paranoia Syndrome.

 

[Ltngdrvr]

What they need is refrigerated DEF tanks, keep the stuff down below 40* so it'll last forever in the truck.

That would solve ALL the issues, wouldn't it???:w:

 

[Minnow101]

Except the temptation would too great to empty the refrigerated DEF tank and fill it with beer.

 

[Ltngdrvr]

Except the temptation would too great to empty the refrigerated DEF tank and fill it with beer.

And then run the injection line up to the driver seat...

 

[Ltngdrvr]

16 months old, and barely has any miles on it (2582 mi.)

So, how many oil changes have you done in that time?

Should be coming up on #3, according to the owners manual maintenance schedule.

 

[ironpony]

DEF the new VP44.................

 

[Minnow101]

And then run the injection line up to the driver seat...

Here's an early prototype I'm working on now:

 

[Billy V]

The reason for DEF Paranoia Syndrome from us owners is due to service departments immediate diagnosis of “bad DEF” whenever we bring our trucks in after getting the shutdown in xxx miles message on the evic. The burden immediately gets put on you to prove it wasn’t bad DEF to avoid paying hundreds of dollars for what should be a warranty covered repair. The OP in my opinion was 100% correct in getting 17 month old DEF out.

That is exactly what happens here at a large local dealer - several dealers actually.

So much so, that they have 2 display containers - one with Crystal Clear Good Def, and the other with Off Color, or Yellowing Bad Def.
They will immediately show you the 2 containers and rule your colored DEF as Bad.

Then your up against the wall trying to prove your def is not bad! What evidence are you going to produce to rebut that?

They will ask you - "When was the last time you added or changed the def fluid?"
"How old in the def in your truck?"
Again, more questions that puts you on the defensive and require you to provide some evidence to rebut what they say they found in your truck.
--------------------------
Their remedy -
To evacuate and clean the def tank $$, and refill with new def at $28 a gal. Minimum $400

Any other repairs and replacement parts are on Your dime, as it was your fault the def got contaminated or was allowed to go bad.

Do you really want to deal with that scenario? It's their house, and they're ready for you.

This should not come as a surprise - SOME (not all) dealers play this game, it's an easy money maker for them - and could be a real problem for you.

For $7.88 you could avert this problem.